Front sight mark

Neil Young · 05-23-2012, 11:05 AM

Gentlemen:
I have a 1917 DWM that has a mark on the forward edge of the front sight base. It's a capital "N" (see attached). I have no such marks on any of my other pistols. Please tell me what it means. The s/n is 6288 with no suffix.

Thanks.

Neil

pors12 · 05-23-2012, 11:24 AM

Hello,

I found an Erfurt 1917 with an I-mark.

I think that this marks the used sight.

best

Otto

Neil Young · 05-23-2012, 05:10 PM

Anybody else have some thoughts on this?

Neil

sheepherder · 05-23-2012, 05:14 PM

Both mine have something in that area, but my eyes/magnifying glass aren't strong enough to assign a number/letter to them...

Is there a list of the various marks and corresponding blade heights???

Norme · 05-23-2012, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Both mine have something in that area, but my eyes/magnifying glass aren't strong enough to assign a number/letter to them...

Is there a list of the various marks and corresponding blade heights???

H Rich, Luger sight blades are a study unto themselves, but Neil is asking about a mark on the front sight block, which is not interchangeable. To your question, military Luger blades were not numbered (with the possible exception of Finish Lugers, which are outside my area), they came in two heights, 5.0mm and 5.5mm. Only Erfurt and Krieghoff blades bore inspection marks, Erfurt on top and Krieghoff beneath, only visible when the blade is removed. Regards, Norm

sheepherder · 05-23-2012, 08:21 PM

Norm -

Pors12's answer of "I think that this marks the used sight" (which I took to be the sight used) would seem to indicate that the sight height was the mark in question - or at least, the blade used...

Now, I'm looking at the Blueprint CD, which shows *three* blade heights...6.7, 7.0, and 7.3mm...(the CD shows them measured from the bottom of the base)...

My question was about how do you tell those blades apart??? Especially if already mounted???

pors12 · 05-24-2012, 07:12 AM

Hi ,

Some pics from my lugers:

The first is a 1917 Erfurt, the 2nd is a 1929 DWM Police and
the 3rd is a DWM with no Date in 7,65 Para.

It looks like I,D and O.

best

Otto

pors12 · 05-24-2012, 07:24 AM

Rich,

I did measure the sight on these 3 guns, and they are different.

The 1917 Erfurt has 23,09 mm, the 1929 DWM has 22,63 mm
and the 7,65 mm DWM has 22,5 mm.

best

Otto

sheepherder · 05-24-2012, 07:24 AM

Just to generate more discussion/confusion [choose one] here's a link to FNorm's album "1942 Banner Police" showing a proof mark in that spot...

sheepherder · 05-24-2012, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pors12

Rich,

I did measure the sight on these 3 guns, and they are different.

The 1917 Erfurt has 23,09 mm, the 1929 DWM has 22,63 mm
and the 7,65 mm DWM has 22,5 mm.

best

Otto

Otto -

So maybe the letters indicate the three different heights???

I was looking at the Blueprint CD to see if it showed any markings on the blades or other designating mark...It's in German, and I don't read German (I don't reed English two gud eider), but there are three different captions for the three blades...Lemme see what I can see...

(Maybe John Sabato will post a pic of that area of the CD...like a teaser...)

I can't make out the last letter...Maybe it's the German double-s???

6.7mm - "Kleinstmass"
7.0mm - "Normalmass"
7.3mm - "Grosstmass" [umlaut over the o; double-s in two places?]

It also says - "Die ubrigen abmessen gen siehe Kleinst mass"...

OK, I read them as Smallest Size/Measurement; Normal Size/Measurement; Largest Size/Measurement...And the other sentence refers the reader to view the other dimensions on the Smallest Size as representative of the other two...

(My freelance interpretation; use your own imagination)

Mrs Schlosky never gave me very high marks in German...

pors12 · 05-24-2012, 07:48 AM

It means smallest/normal/biggest hight.

Maybe an real expert know´s more about that ....

If you compare my three hights it seem to bee that I
have 2 small and one big sight .....

So I have to ask why they did not use the same letter.

best

Otto

Norme · 05-24-2012, 08:33 AM

Just to clarify, I was referring to German Military Lugers, P04s, P08s and LP08s. There were only two sight heights used, 5.0mm and 5.5mm, both measured from the top of the base to the top of the sight. All P04s (Navies), and LP08s (Artilleries), used the 5.0mm blade. Early P08s, prior to 1914, also used the 5.00mm blade, but most were recalled and retrofitted with the 5.5mm blade at the same time as the hold-open was installed. After 1914, all P08s came with the 5.5mm blade, whether they were made by DWM, Erfurt, Simson, Mauser or Krieghoff. Once again, I'm talking about German Military Lugers only, not commercials or foreign contracts. If the blades were considered interchangeable, which they weren't, they would be marked on the blade itself, like some P38 sights, not on the front sight block. Regards, Norm

sheepherder · 05-24-2012, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

Just to clarify, I was referring to German Military Lugers, P04s, P08s and LP08s. There were only two sight heights used...

Thanks for clarifying that, Norm.

Does this mean that John's CD is composed of commercial blueprints???

The drawing that shows three heights is Page02.jpg, and is labeled "Infanterie-Konstrucktionsbureau" at the bottom...

Norme · 05-24-2012, 09:06 AM

Hi Rich, I haven't see John's drawings, and I have no idea what the mark on Neil's front sight base signifies. The mark on FNorm's base that you posted earlier, is a Police inspection mark, the mark I showed, on the blade itself, is an Erfurt inspection mark (on an early DWM gun), that signifies that it is a retrofitted 5.5mm blade. There were other changes that occurred over time in the number of serrations on the blades themselves, but that's another story! Regards, Norm

Dwight Gruber · 05-24-2012, 11:16 AM

Suggest you measure the height of the sight blocks themselves rather than the top of the sight blade.

--Dwight

Quote:

Originally Posted by pors12

Rich,

I did measure the sight on these 3 guns, and they are different.

The 1917 Erfurt has 23,09 mm, the 1929 DWM has 22,63 mm
and the 7,65 mm DWM has 22,5 mm.

best

Otto

sheepherder · 05-24-2012, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

Hi Rich, I haven't see John's drawings, ...

Norm -

I don't want to violate John's implied copyright; email me if you want a partial screenshot showing the front blades...

Of course, just because they are shown on the machine drawings doesn't mean they were all made or distributed...

Norme · 05-24-2012, 03:52 PM

Hi Rich,, By all means send me an email: normrab@comcast.net.
I'm more interested, though, in the origin of these drawings. Are they taken from DWM or Mauser original drawings, or were they drawn from measurements taken from existing guns? Are they of military or commercial Lugers, or both? Best regards, Norm

sheepherder · 05-24-2012, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norme

I'm more interested, though, in the origin of these drawings. Are they taken from DWM or Mauser original drawings, or were they drawn from measurements taken from existing guns? Are they of military or commercial Lugers, or both? Best regards, Norm

Norm -

Questions best asked of John Sabato...I am just a humble customer of his...

(Email sent!)

05-23-2012, 11:05 AM	#1
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 540 Thanks: 546 Thanked 438 Times in 165 Posts	Front sight mark Gentlemen: I have a 1917 DWM that has a mark on the forward edge of the front sight base. It's a capital "N" (see attached). I have no such marks on any of my other pistols. Please tell me what it means. The s/n is 6288 with no suffix. Thanks. Neil Attached Thumbnails __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done. Last edited by Neil Young; 05-23-2012 at 11:06 AM. Reason: Added serial number.

05-23-2012, 11:24 AM	#2
pors12 User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 115 Thanks: 24 Thanked 59 Times in 21 Posts	Hello, I found an Erfurt 1917 with an I-mark. I think that this marks the used sight. best Otto Last edited by pors12; 05-24-2012 at 07:14 AM.

05-23-2012, 05:10 PM	#3
Neil Young Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Scottsboro, Alabama Posts: 540 Thanks: 546 Thanked 438 Times in 165 Posts	Anybody else have some thoughts on this? Neil __________________ Neil The hurrier I go the behinder I get. Sometimes it takes me all day to get nothing done.

05-23-2012, 05:14 PM	#4
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Both mine have something in that area, but my eyes/magnifying glass aren't strong enough to assign a number/letter to them... Is there a list of the various marks and corresponding blade heights??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

05-23-2012, 08:21 PM	#6
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Norm - Pors12's answer of "I think that this marks the used sight" (which I took to be the sight used) would seem to indicate that the sight height was the mark in question - or at least, the blade used... Now, I'm looking at the Blueprint CD, which shows three blade heights...6.7, 7.0, and 7.3mm...(the CD shows them measured from the bottom of the base)... My question was about how do you tell those blades apart??? Especially if already mounted??? __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

05-24-2012, 07:12 AM	#7
pors12 User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 115 Thanks: 24 Thanked 59 Times in 21 Posts	Hi , Some pics from my lugers: The first is a 1917 Erfurt, the 2nd is a 1929 DWM Police and the 3rd is a DWM with no Date in 7,65 Para. It looks like I,D and O. best Otto Attached Thumbnails

05-24-2012, 07:24 AM	#8
pors12 User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 115 Thanks: 24 Thanked 59 Times in 21 Posts	Rich, I did measure the sight on these 3 guns, and they are different. The 1917 Erfurt has 23,09 mm, the 1929 DWM has 22,63 mm and the 7,65 mm DWM has 22,5 mm. best Otto Attached Thumbnails

05-24-2012, 07:48 AM	#11
pors12 User Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Austria Posts: 115 Thanks: 24 Thanked 59 Times in 21 Posts	It means smallest/normal/biggest hight. Maybe an real expert know´s more about that .... If you compare my three hights it seem to bee that I have 2 small and one big sight ..... So I have to ask why they did not use the same letter. best Otto

05-24-2012, 08:33 AM	#12
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Just to clarify, I was referring to German Military Lugers, P04s, P08s and LP08s. There were only two sight heights used, 5.0mm and 5.5mm, both measured from the top of the base to the top of the sight. All P04s (Navies), and LP08s (Artilleries), used the 5.0mm blade. Early P08s, prior to 1914, also used the 5.00mm blade, but most were recalled and retrofitted with the 5.5mm blade at the same time as the hold-open was installed. After 1914, all P08s came with the 5.5mm blade, whether they were made by DWM, Erfurt, Simson, Mauser or Krieghoff. Once again, I'm talking about German Military Lugers only, not commercials or foreign contracts. If the blades were considered interchangeable, which they weren't, they would be marked on the blade itself, like some P38 sights, not on the front sight block. Regards, Norm

05-24-2012, 09:06 AM	#14
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi Rich, I haven't see John's drawings, and I have no idea what the mark on Neil's front sight base signifies. The mark on FNorm's base that you posted earlier, is a Police inspection mark, the mark I showed, on the blade itself, is an Erfurt inspection mark (on an early DWM gun), that signifies that it is a retrofitted 5.5mm blade. There were other changes that occurred over time in the number of serrations on the blades themselves, but that's another story! Regards, Norm

05-24-2012, 03:52 PM	#17
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi Rich,, By all means send me an email: normrab@comcast.net. I'm more interested, though, in the origin of these drawings. Are they taken from DWM or Mauser original drawings, or were they drawn from measurements taken from existing guns? Are they of military or commercial Lugers, or both? Best regards, Norm