Gouv Kiau...?

[Big Norm]

Bill,
while you have a good point, I still would not want to make it easier for the 'bad guys'. Make them dig through the books. Most of these quick cash people are too lazy to work for what they need. Thats why they have to cheat in the first place. Also, if we were to name names on who we heard were the actual 'bad guys' we might accidentally be wrong one one or two times and have to face a law suit. Pete did the right thing.

Finally, the guns in question are VERY expensive. If you can afford them then you can afford to get the people who know what thay are doing to help you. As bad as it sounds, there is a level of gun collecting that the poor should not tread. Another way of putting it is that an amateur should not play 'real money' poker with strangers.
Big Norm

[MauserLugers]

Norm,
Most of us have heard who is selling some of this junk and who is making it. We can't come out and print their names do to lawsuits and such. We have to say, "in my opinion" on every comment, and we are hesitant to even say something isn't correct. The "bad guys" sell some good guns too, so one person might buy a nice gun from them and his buddy might buy a piece of junk. This is the way it works and it has been going on for many, many years. How these guys treat someone they know or have heard of and how they treat "fresh meat" is totally different. Like you mentioned above about playing poker, they can size a person's knowledge and level of expertise in just a few minutes. Just look at the Rock Island Auction for example. Someone sells the junk to a collector and then it is resold to another collector and so on and so on. No one but a collector is going to pay $5000 and up for items, and they were originally sold to them from someone they trusted or believed in. I've heard of certain guns being returned up to 8 times before someone finally kept it.

I respectfully disagree with you on your comment about making it easier for the "bad guys" as they have access to the real stuff in the first place. I feel this forum is a great place with a lot of useful information, but not posting pictures to explain something when one brings it up in a thread because they are afraid the "bad guys" might find out about it, is just plain silly in my opinion. If we know about it, I'm sure they know about it also, and especially how numbers and letters should be. For instance, take K-Date Navy Lugers. You can look in any book and see correct examples of the numbers and the eagle. The problem isn't posting correct pictures, it's taking the time to look at the pictures and determine if it is correct. If the "bad guys" want to make an exact copy of a piece, they can, but the cost is too great and they don't have to when they are able to sell a decent copy. -- Bill

[Edward Tinker]

I agree with you Bill, I think it is better to teach folks here as the fakers and thieves who "might" learn, as I think they are up on real versus fake guns.

Ed

[Pete Ebbink]

Guys,

I do not disagree...

But as I do not own the gun and the photo was not mine...I will let the gun's owner decide if he wants to post the photo or not.

[luger11]

Guys.........Please excuse the delay in answering. My family has been mourning the death of my 90+ year old father, who passed away on Friday.

I have been monertering this thread very closely and I believe Pete made the proper call in the begining. But Bill and others have made very valid points, how can we learn if we can not be shown proper identification.
If the "bad guys" are monertering this site then so be it,there are far more good guys here.

So with my permission Pete go ahead and do it.

Leo

[Pete Ebbink]

Thanks Leo...

[Heinz]

Another aspect of the Gouv Kiau lugers is the safety relocation work is usually pretty rough

[Dwight Gruber]

Leo,

Condolences on the demise of your father, and many thanks for your consideration in showing us the proper picture.

--Dwight

[MauserLugers]

Leo,
Thanks for sharing the pictures. Interesting comparison. Condolences to you and your family on your loss. -- Bill

[Edward Tinker]

leo, my condolences, it is a tough time, no matter when.

Ed

[lugerholsterrepair]

Leo, Thanks for the permission and Pete, Thanks for posting excellent photo's.
I think it was General Patton who said we should not mourn for those fallen men but rejoice that they were among us...Not an exact quote but you get the idea. I am always amazed at people who live such a long life. Gives us all hope.
I hope you have many fond memories of your Father. He will be missed by many....
Jerry Burney

[luger11]

Thank you all for your condolances they are deeply appreciated. At 90 and no medications at all he lived a very full life.

On a liter note..he did not have any Navy Lugers.

Heins brought up a very interesting point on the original "Gesichert" location, it apears that it was erased with a hand grinding wheel and not a machine tool.

I will rely on my good friend Pete to post a photo.....seems my photos have to be resized and I'm not that sharp on the computer.

Leo

[Pete Ebbink]

Leo's Photo :

[the gunman]

My condolances go out to you Leo

[luger11]

Thanks Richie.

Leo

[Jan C Still]

Bill stated "I respectfully disagree with you on your comment about making it easier for the "bad guys" as they have access to the real stuff in the first place. I feel this forum is a great place with a lot of useful information, but not posting pictures to explain something when one brings it up in a thread because they are afraid the "bad guys" might find out about it, is just plain silly in my opinion. If we know about it, I'm sure they know about it also, and especially how numbers and letters should be. For instance, take K-Date Navy Lugers. You can look in any book and see correct examples of the numbers and the eagle. The problem isn't posting correct pictures, it's taking the time to look at the pictures and determine if it is correct. If the "bad guys" want to make an exact copy of a piece, they can, but the cost is too great and they don't have to when they are able to sell a decent copy. -- Bill"

I agree completely with Bill. In some cases, detailed photographs will help fellow collectors determine if a gun is correct or not. Also(as illustrated here in), there are some poor quality replicas(fakes) coming up for sale that can be detected from a mile away.
Jan

[jamese]

My condolances go out to you Leo

Thak you for the photo

Jim

[G.W. Gill]

Sympathy and condolence. Our prayers are with you and for your your Dad. The Gill Family.

[luger11]

Thank you all, good friends are all one needs at these times.

Leo

[thegundude]

Potential counterfits is one of the biggest reasons I tend to stay away from the more valuable, and "rare" Lugers. Ferpetesake, aren't Lugers expensive enough as it is? These guys really suck.

Not sure how I would deal with someone if I caught them faking a gun. Depending on my mood at the time, I'm sure it would range somewhere between bring them to the cops (personally, drug in by the ear) or beating them into the ground. I think I'd probably opt for beating them into the ground. >:-(

Leo, I'm sorry to hear of your fathers passing. Ninety is a ripe old age indeed, and he got there without medications, you say? I'm VERY impressed... Still though, I'm sorry for your loss...