Navy

[Roadkill]

Egun, thought ya'll might want to see this one

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=1902311











rk

[ChannelIsles]

The seller has some additional images.

I see from the description no mention is made to the bore condition (although my translation relies solely on bable fish!)

From the images posted - can anyone detect a possible refinish?

Brendan

[John Sabato]

I would be quite surprized if this gun has not been refinished. There is some pitting on the front left of the barrel that appears to be UNDER the bluing. The straw parts however look original to my eye in these photos.

But I still wouldn't mind having it in my gun safe... it is a nice Luger...and I don't own a Navy... Yet.

[LugerVern]

I agree with John:

Nice refinish/restoration, no ware marks on the high edges, notice too that the area just in front of the side plate is just a little darker than the rest of the finish.


Vern

[Imperial Arms]

Hello Vern,

I do not think that this Navy Luger is restored based on the images. If so, it would be the best restoration that I have encountered. However, a inhand examination is always recommended.

I notice consistency in the blue and the strawed parts as well as some very fine patina on various areas of the pistol which is a positive sign.

Albert

[John Sabato]

Albert, thanks for your opinion on this one...

To my tired old eyes, it appeared very difficult to distinguish the original finish... I would rather err on the side of caution, and profess my doubts, than recommend to someone to purchase a possible fake.

I bow to your expertise in these matters.

kind regards,

John

[Navy]

Based on the pictures, I like it. I would, of course like to have the opportunity for a detailed, hands-on look before committing to it. If a re-do, it is certainly the best I have seen.

Tom A.

[Imperial Arms]

It is always wise to be cautious when 'scoping out' any fine condition item, and I always try to be fair and give credit were due. In the case of this Navy Luger, hereunder are the points that I like:

1) Signs of natural patina, and micro patina even under the finish;
2) The edges are sharp, even on the high edges of the sideplate;
3) The straw shows (dirt) discoloration and slight thinning, and the small fire blue parts look acceptable to me.
4) The grip screws have turned a dullish blue-brown which shows normal handling;
5) The grips are original and show consistency to the rest of the Luger. If the grips would show more wear, yes, I would be concerned that the pistol has been refinished.

If this Luger has been (partially) refinished, some pro definitely took the time to strip this pistol down to the bare bone and applied a very careful selective restoration. It would have costed quite a bit money and time to apply this level of workmanship while preserving the signs of orginality.

It is possible that only one part/area of the pistol may have have been refinished, but I cannot detect it in the supplied images.

Overall, I am comfortable with the originality of this Navy Luger based on the supplied images, but I may have overlooked or missed a particular detail that might disturb/alarm somebody else. I have received some information from my European sources that there are a number of collectors bidding on this item and I presume that bidding will intensify towards the end of the auction.

Albert

[lugerholsterrepair]

I have to agree with Albert & add that the slide rails are in the white...Also take a close look at the rear grip strap near the stock lug. Strong patina particularly in the W.W.....No refinnish here. The left slide Crown M's are strong. I also agree with fellow Paratrooper Col. Tom A...It would be necessary to have it in hand to look at something besides photo's.
From the photo's it looks rightous.

Jerry Burney

[LugerVern]

Well, sorry but I am just not buying it, no offense to anyone. I know I am going against some of the most knowledgeable collectors in the world but you have taught me well.

The gun just does not stand up to close scrutiny, it is the fact that it is too perfect that draws my attention to the details.

How do you explain the darking in front of the side plate?
Where are the scratches from recoil and take down? Both in front of the side plate and around the take down lever?

What about the rear sight, darking there too where there should be ware marks?

The gun is way too clean, the only sign of rust is under the rear sight and yet that is recent, wrong color, not embedded enough.

The pictures are pretty clear in the areas I am talking about, so thats not the issue.

I actually like this gun and would love to have it in my collection, am I too critical? Maybe, but honestly when was the last time anyone saw a perfect 06 Navy that had not been messed with?

You can evict me now

Vern

[lugerholsterrepair]

Vern...Maybe, but honestly when was the last time anyone saw a perfect 06 Navy that had not been messed with?

I have one....

Jerry Burney

[Ron Wood]

Sorry Vern, I have to side with the probably un-messed with group. I have a '06 that is even better than this one (well actually the straw isn't quite as good, but the blue is better). Like Tom, I would want a hands-on, but from the photos it looks OK to me. There is wear on the high points (take a closer look at the side plate). The dark area in front of the side plate could (notice I said could) be an oil smudge (take a clean dry gun with a little bit of lube under the side plate and work the action). There is battering/nicks on the leading edge of the side plate, the front of the frame, and the edges of the trigger guard to name a few places. Check out the freckling on the grip safety and rear grip strap and stock lug. It is not too perfect by a long shot. You have a great eye for detail, I think you may just have missed a couple.

[LugerVern]

Hi Ron

I am just not convinced yet, I don't think that there should be bluing inside the area where the old safety marking was. Below is a picture to show what I am talking about. This is the 3rd area that looks refinished to me. If there was only one or two questionable areas I would give in, there starting to add up.
I also don't like the looks of the ware line on the rear of the frame, but that one really is questionable.


Reviewing a gun based on pictures is always ify, in hand it might all wash away, we have been down this road before.

Its hard to have a conversation if everyone always agrees__ good discussion

Vern

[ChannelIsles]

Here's some more images to ponder.
Brendan

[Ron Wood]

Hi Vern,

I also enjoy a good discussion and disagreement is healthy. I don't know of anybody that argues as friendly as we do!

You will see a lot of variation in the alteration of the safety marking. Heinz Ahlers has made a pretty good study of them. The depth and width of the machining will vary, some are re-blued and some are not, and some, as in the case of mine, the area was welded back up and re-machined after removing the marking. The alteration obviously was not done as a lot and not performed at the same facility or with the same level of care.

[Imperial Arms]

Hello Vern,

Based on the additional images provided by 'ChannelIsles', I am confident that the Navy Luger is genuine. For example, notice the tiny amount of patina near the top right corner of the sideplate and also notice the sharp edges of the sideplate. Furthermore, the front gripstap shows patina under the blue which is a very strong positive point. If I wanted this Navy Luger for my collection, I would bid on it. Unfortunately, it does not have a matching rig.

I also notice that magazine has not been messed with - the magazine bottom pin is untouched and the concentric circles are perfect.

Sometimes you become paranoid and quickly jump to conclusions when you encounter a fine pistol in an auction, and I feel that you still need to gain more experience and train you eye. No offense to you and I am only giving you encouragement.

Albert

[Ron Wood]

Albert,
Vern has trained his eyes intensively to spot fakes and flaws...perhaps overtrained!!! He and Pete Ebbink (he even calls himself "Paranoid Pete") have unmasked several fakes over the past few years. But they, like us, are not infallible and the fact that they do miss one now and then is no great condemnation. I am not shy about disagreeing with them. Sometimes they convert my opinion, and I think they may have agreed with me once or twice...but not without a struggle.

[LugerVern]

Albert

I never questioned the luger being a genuine "06 Navy" it is exactly what it appears to be, however I believe this gun is an older restoration that has aged very well and developed authentic looking patina, something we are going to need to deal with more and more often as time goes on.

The facts remain that this gun has been cleaned internally of all rust and in fact appears bright and shinny without even a hint of oxidation on internal surfaces. When we add the lack of high edge ware and no sign of holster or stock ware you must ask the question how can this be.

This gun was issued, so we have an issued gun that was never used, never carried and fired very little--Am I paranoid, yes I am and for good reason.

I stand by my review of this gun

Vern

[Heinz]

The bottom of the safety alteration slot appears to be exactly the same blue as the pistol. If that is so this is not a good sign.

[ChannelIsles]

The last two images to view,
Brendan