Mitchell Luger Sucker

davidkachel · 11-14-2006, 08:24 PM

Apparently that's me!
In the 70's I had a great "new" Luger, 6" barrel, beautifully blued, 9mm.
I don't remember who made it, but I bought it new and loved it.
Don't even remember why I sold it.
I've been wanting to replace it for quite a while and saw a Mitchell Luger (stainless) at a gun show a few months back and thought, "why not". I might like it better and at the least it could be a "place holder" until I found what I really wanted.
WHAT A MISTAKE!
This is the worst functioning firearm of any kind I have ever owned and I've owned some genuine lemons.
I now have $662 into it, including repairs, and what I thought was a bargain, ain't!
It jams, it stovepipes, it fails to feed at all. I could fill a page with every variety of ways in which it malfunctions. When I got it, it looked virtually new, possibly even unfired. But the guy who sold it to me obviously new what he was getting rid of.
I've talked with the guy who currently owns the company that produced them and he wants almost as much money just to ship it back to me as the guy who just worked on the feed ramp for me. (This was a good job. He fixed it so it is actually capable of feeding empty casings! But the other problems were not addressed and I am not at all sure I want to address them.)
I've noticed a couple of postings on this list mentioning hopes they will resume production. Based on my experience and some of the others I've read, Mitchell owners should be organizing a class action lawsuit for intentionally producing a defective product, rather than hoping they'll resume production. They ought to be ashamed to have produced a product like this. Hell, I've seen Jennings work better than this Mitchell Luger.

Now that I've let off a little steam...
1st question: Is this thing worth putting any more money into? ie, can it be turned into a reliable gun without another several hundred dollar investment?
2nd question: Does anyone have any suggestions on where, how, etc. I can get what I really wanted: 9mm, blued, 6" barrel, don't care a whit about historical/collector value, just want a beautiful and reliable shooter. I'm not a Luger collector, have no plans to be one, don't know anything about Lugers (how I got into this mess in the first place I suppose), just want a nice, like-new looking "representative" piece without having to rent out my wife. (OK, I'll consider that, but it'll have to be a REALLY nice one.)

davidkachel · 11-14-2006, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley
Mauser - 1970's ca. $1000 NIB now. Be warned - 6" bbl are rare.

tac

I assume this is a suggestion on what to get?
Any ideas where, who etc.?

davidkachel · 11-14-2006, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley
Sorry, Sir, I live in Tokyo, Japan, not the one in Oklahoma.

I am told that they may be seen at many gunshows, but a post on the POST-WAR forum should get you a more useful answer than mine.

Best wishes

tac

The only Lugers of any kind I've seen at a gun show for the last 8 years are the Mitchell I bought, and a couple that one local guy has that he has not been able to sell for all of those 8 years because the prices he asks are ridiculous and everyone laughs at him.

Isn't THIS the POST-WAR forum??

Vlim · 11-15-2006, 05:59 AM

Hi,

Tac offered some sound advice. I'd say, either go for a postwar Mauser Parabellum. These were made in the 1970's and 80's and distributed in the US by Interarms. They are good quality shooters and made by Mauser. But they are getting more expensive every day....

Do a search on gunbroker with 'interarms luger'. You'll find some examples.

The next best thing is a shooter grade Pre-1948 luger. They are out there, but it's getting more difficult to find the real bargains as well.

mauro · 11-15-2006, 03:35 PM

Hi,
Have a look at my web site and click on Mauser Parabellum. I guess that you can reconnaise the model you had in the '70.
Cheers,
Mauro
www.lugerlp08.com

Steve Richards · 11-15-2006, 08:19 PM

Contact Mr. Romo at Orimar (in the Links & Resources section on the left). He will be able to fix your stainless so that it works properly. His company made all of them.

Steve

davidkachel · 11-15-2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Steve Richards
Contact Mr. Romo at Orimar (in the Links & Resources section on the left). He will be able to fix your stainless so that it works properly. His company made all of them.

Steve

I spoke with him a few months back. He did not exactly inspire my confidence and caused me to believe I could expect a whopper of a bill.
Have you had any direct experience with him doing repairs; time, cost, reliability, permanence of repair?

wdavid431 · 11-16-2006, 07:01 AM

I am sorry to hear you have such bad luck with your Mitchell Luger. I purchased one about a year ago, 1992 model, and had trouble with jaming until I switched bullets. The Winchester, 115 gr, is a little longer and since then I have had excellent results firing the pistol.
I hope yours can be fixed at a reasonable cost. Once they are correct, the Mitchells can be a real joy to fire.

John Sabato · 11-16-2006, 07:56 AM

While it has been reported that Mr. Romo of the Orimar corporation has been difficult to get a hold of, I can't recall a single reported incident of him not making a defective pistol right... and to the best of my knowledge, he has only charged for shipping... lots of positive reports from forum members on his repair work.

This is second hand of course, because I have been moderating this forum since around 1996 or 1997, but I have never dealt with Mr. Romo personally... Please let us know how you make out on getting your Stainless Luger repaired.

unspellable · 11-16-2006, 02:01 PM

During the Mitchell era I had a conversation with someone at Mitchell. According to him the stainless Luger dimensions were copied from a 1942 Mauser. This implies that at least for the Mitchell era guns with the standard magazine there may be the same problem with cartridge OAL that the vintage Lugers have.

I have not done much shooting with my Mitchell but to date have not had a malfunction of any kind.

I have seen a number of Mitchells with a misfit between the receiver under lug and the take down lever such that the cannon does not return quite all the way forward. This might have an effect on reliability but would be an easy fix since it would involve removing a little metal from the front face of the under lug.

shadow · 11-22-2006, 12:30 AM

David,

Could you post some closeup photos of the feeding ramps. I want to see what was done to make it feed empty cases.

Thanks,

Chris

Alx · 12-25-2006, 05:32 PM

The 3 (three) Houston, Texas stainless steel Lugers I had all were problematic. I think the main problem was soft metal, and lack of hardening where it was supposed to count. The guns can't hold precision and if they happen to wear evenly, will work for a time, but not long before they beat themselves up internally.
Finish surfaces look overbuffed and wavy on every one of them I have ever seen, in person or in photos, and that includes about maybe 30 different ones. I hate them with passion now. If the one you have/had was able to shoot more than just a few rounds, it probably has beaten its malleable frame toggle ramps and has swollen metal on the sides there now.
Any Genuine German shooter Luger can be re-barreled with an aftermarket or spare 6-inch barrel, labor cost me 120 USD, and the finish chemically stripped off to approximate a white metal gun, and you will have a well made, hard steel, precise shooting gun, with readily available replacement parts accessed via eBay, Sarco, or Numrich to name a few sources.
Before: rust partially removed with wire brush, but pitting evident on side plate, trigger and nearby frame, and other places.

After: rust removed with Naval Jelly, surface selectively filed to lessen appearance of pitting, finish completely stripped from exterior of gun...

Keep it oiled/waxed, but then, what is going to hurt it anyway, a bit of surface rust. ? Hah !!
This 1917 was a rusty mess, which I Navel Jelly treated, wire brushed, filed a bit on, and stripped the finish off, and had a new Bohler Stahl Austrian 6-inch barrel installedl. The only finish I have on it is a very thin mix of Birchwood Casey cold-blue mixed with mostly blue and rust remover, which prevented the gun from going back to black, keeping a very light gray tone instead.

Pretty on the surface, from a distance, but IMHO jello inside.

Steve Richards · 12-28-2006, 08:39 PM

I had to have an extractor replaed on mine and it was at no charge. My dealings with Mr. Romo have been very good.

Steve Richards

Bolex · 04-18-2007, 07:04 PM

I bought one new when they were first out and have run a fair amount of rounds through it. Not thousands mind you. It is stainless steel and therefore has different material properties. The Luger was not originally designed for the properties of stainless and you can not just substitute one steel for another. With that said my experience has been that I have not seen any abnormal wear.

11-14-2006, 08:24 PM	#1
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Mitchell Luger Sucker Apparently that's me! In the 70's I had a great "new" Luger, 6" barrel, beautifully blued, 9mm. I don't remember who made it, but I bought it new and loved it. Don't even remember why I sold it. I've been wanting to replace it for quite a while and saw a Mitchell Luger (stainless) at a gun show a few months back and thought, "why not". I might like it better and at the least it could be a "place holder" until I found what I really wanted. WHAT A MISTAKE! This is the worst functioning firearm of any kind I have ever owned and I've owned some genuine lemons. I now have $662 into it, including repairs, and what I thought was a bargain, ain't! It jams, it stovepipes, it fails to feed at all. I could fill a page with every variety of ways in which it malfunctions. When I got it, it looked virtually new, possibly even unfired. But the guy who sold it to me obviously new what he was getting rid of. I've talked with the guy who currently owns the company that produced them and he wants almost as much money just to ship it back to me as the guy who just worked on the feed ramp for me. (This was a good job. He fixed it so it is actually capable of feeding empty casings! But the other problems were not addressed and I am not at all sure I want to address them.) I've noticed a couple of postings on this list mentioning hopes they will resume production. Based on my experience and some of the others I've read, Mitchell owners should be organizing a class action lawsuit for intentionally producing a defective product, rather than hoping they'll resume production. They ought to be ashamed to have produced a product like this. Hell, I've seen Jennings work better than this Mitchell Luger. Now that I've let off a little steam... 1st question: Is this thing worth putting any more money into? ie, can it be turned into a reliable gun without another several hundred dollar investment? 2nd question: Does anyone have any suggestions on where, how, etc. I can get what I really wanted: 9mm, blued, 6" barrel, don't care a whit about historical/collector value, just want a beautiful and reliable shooter. I'm not a Luger collector, have no plans to be one, don't know anything about Lugers (how I got into this mess in the first place I suppose), just want a nice, like-new looking "representative" piece without having to rent out my wife. (OK, I'll consider that, but it'll have to be a REALLY nice one.)

11-15-2006, 03:35 PM	#5
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Hi, Have a look at my web site and click on Mauser Parabellum. I guess that you can reconnaise the model you had in the '70. Cheers, Mauro www.lugerlp08.com __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

11-16-2006, 07:01 AM	#8
wdavid431 User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 135 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	I am sorry to hear you have such bad luck with your Mitchell Luger. I purchased one about a year ago, 1992 model, and had trouble with jaming until I switched bullets. The Winchester, 115 gr, is a little longer and since then I have had excellent results firing the pistol. I hope yours can be fixed at a reasonable cost. Once they are correct, the Mitchells can be a real joy to fire. __________________ W David

11-16-2006, 07:56 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	While it has been reported that Mr. Romo of the Orimar corporation has been difficult to get a hold of, I can't recall a single reported incident of him not making a defective pistol right... and to the best of my knowledge, he has only charged for shipping... lots of positive reports from forum members on his repair work. This is second hand of course, because I have been moderating this forum since around 1996 or 1997, but I have never dealt with Mr. Romo personally... Please let us know how you make out on getting your Stainless Luger repaired. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-22-2006, 12:30 AM	#11
shadow User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down The Shore Posts: 245 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	David, Could you post some closeup photos of the feeding ramps. I want to see what was done to make it feed empty cases. Thanks, Chris __________________ The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good. George Washington

11-15-2006, 05:59 AM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,038 Thanks: 1,021 Thanked 3,896 Times in 1,189 Posts	Hi, Tac offered some sound advice. I'd say, either go for a postwar Mauser Parabellum. These were made in the 1970's and 80's and distributed in the US by Interarms. They are good quality shooters and made by Mauser. But they are getting more expensive every day.... Do a search on gunbroker with 'interarms luger'. You'll find some examples. The next best thing is a shooter grade Pre-1948 luger. They are out there, but it's getting more difficult to find the real bargains as well.

11-15-2006, 08:19 PM	#6
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Contact Mr. Romo at Orimar (in the Links & Resources section on the left). He will be able to fix your stainless so that it works properly. His company made all of them. Steve

11-16-2006, 02:01 PM	#10
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	During the Mitchell era I had a conversation with someone at Mitchell. According to him the stainless Luger dimensions were copied from a 1942 Mauser. This implies that at least for the Mitchell era guns with the standard magazine there may be the same problem with cartridge OAL that the vintage Lugers have. I have not done much shooting with my Mitchell but to date have not had a malfunction of any kind. I have seen a number of Mitchells with a misfit between the receiver under lug and the take down lever such that the cannon does not return quite all the way forward. This might have an effect on reliability but would be an easy fix since it would involve removing a little metal from the front face of the under lug.

12-25-2006, 05:32 PM	#12
Alx User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Nashville, Tennessee area Posts: 263 Thanks: 5 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	The 3 (three) Houston, Texas stainless steel Lugers I had all were problematic. I think the main problem was soft metal, and lack of hardening where it was supposed to count. The guns can't hold precision and if they happen to wear evenly, will work for a time, but not long before they beat themselves up internally. Finish surfaces look overbuffed and wavy on every one of them I have ever seen, in person or in photos, and that includes about maybe 30 different ones. I hate them with passion now. If the one you have/had was able to shoot more than just a few rounds, it probably has beaten its malleable frame toggle ramps and has swollen metal on the sides there now. Any Genuine German shooter Luger can be re-barreled with an aftermarket or spare 6-inch barrel, labor cost me 120 USD, and the finish chemically stripped off to approximate a white metal gun, and you will have a well made, hard steel, precise shooting gun, with readily available replacement parts accessed via eBay, Sarco, or Numrich to name a few sources. Before: rust partially removed with wire brush, but pitting evident on side plate, trigger and nearby frame, and other places. After: rust removed with Naval Jelly, surface selectively filed to lessen appearance of pitting, finish completely stripped from exterior of gun... Keep it oiled/waxed, but then, what is going to hurt it anyway, a bit of surface rust. ? Hah !! This 1917 was a rusty mess, which I Navel Jelly treated, wire brushed, filed a bit on, and stripped the finish off, and had a new Bohler Stahl Austrian 6-inch barrel installedl. The only finish I have on it is a very thin mix of Birchwood Casey cold-blue mixed with mostly blue and rust remover, which prevented the gun from going back to black, keeping a very light gray tone instead. Pretty on the surface, from a distance, but IMHO jello inside.

12-28-2006, 08:39 PM	#13
Steve Richards User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Beaverton, Oregon Posts: 487 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I had to have an extractor replaed on mine and it was at no charge. My dealings with Mr. Romo have been very good. Steve Richards

04-18-2007, 07:04 PM	#14
Bolex New User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I bought one new when they were first out and have run a fair amount of rounds through it. Not thousands mind you. It is stainless steel and therefore has different material properties. The Luger was not originally designed for the properties of stainless and you can not just substitute one steel for another. With that said my experience has been that I have not seen any abnormal wear.