Blueing question

Brandon · 10-23-2002, 10:09 PM

Hi Guys,
I'd like to get your opinions on the gun pictured below (1916 DWM Military), I am going out on a limb here, but doesn't the blueing on the barrel and sideplate look like darker "salt-blueing" rather than "rust blueing" as it should be?

Just wondering, Brandon <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Luger on internet gun sales site.

Brandon · 10-23-2002, 10:18 PM

Just noticed something!
The gun is listed as "all matching", well look at the ALUMINUM bottomed magazine! There is no way short of magic this Luger could be "all matching"!!!

Brandon...

P.S. Gun is on GunsAmerica.com

Edward Tinker · 10-23-2002, 10:35 PM

That is mostly true, but many collectors say that a matching magazine is great, but not an end all for matching condition.

It is hard to see on the picture, but the barrel does look different, maybe lighting?

Thor · 10-23-2002, 11:01 PM

Barrel and sideplate look like salt bluing to me too!

Dwight Gruber · 10-23-2002, 11:04 PM

The photograph of the Luger presented above is not of sufficient quality or detail to be able to come to any conclusion about the characteristics of its surface blue.

Some speculation based on observation and logic below, followed by answerable questions.

I have noticed correct and matching Lugers where the condition of the sideplate is a bit different from the condition of the rest of the gun--usually a bit more rusted or pitted, if the gun is use worn rather than pristine. In my minds eye I recall Lugers where the bluing of the barrel appeared faintly different under close observation, as well.

Without certain knowledge, I suspect that barrel steel is a different grade from the steel which makes up the rest of the gun. My observation of side plates leads me to speculate that these are different, as well.

I would expect steel of different grades to accept bluing differently, and thus to appear slightly different after decades exposed to the environment. I have seen, and we have all had pointed out, that salt-blued extractors, for instance, 'plum' easily.

Can anyone here speak authoritatively about the grades of steel used in various parts of the Luger, and can anyone (Thor??) comment on the bluing characteristics of these various parts?

--Dwight

Thor · 10-23-2002, 11:12 PM

Sideplate tends to really blue dark and is soft. Barrel surprisingly blues dark too, but I can tell you the barrel and sideplate look over polished and too dark and black to be rust bluing. I would almost (and I said almost) bet on it! In most pics the sideplate will APPEAR darker than the sides as it is canted slightly different angle than the side of the gun.

John Sabato · 10-24-2002, 11:04 AM

I agree with Dwight. The photo was taken out of focus and in unbalanced lighting... While it appears that the barrel and sideplate have been polished to a higher degree than the rest of the pistol, a much better photograph is necessary to properly judge this gun's condition.

10-23-2002, 10:09 PM	#1
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Blueing question Hi Guys, I'd like to get your opinions on the gun pictured below (1916 DWM Military), I am going out on a limb here, but doesn't the blueing on the barrel and sideplate look like darker "salt-blueing" rather than "rust blueing" as it should be? Just wondering, Brandon <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" /> Luger on internet gun sales site.

10-23-2002, 10:35 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,911 Thanks: 1,987 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	That is mostly true, but many collectors say that a matching magazine is great, but not an end all for matching condition. It is hard to see on the picture, but the barrel does look different, maybe lighting? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-23-2002, 11:01 PM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Barrel and sideplate look like salt bluing to me too! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-23-2002, 11:12 PM	#6
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Sideplate tends to really blue dark and is soft. Barrel surprisingly blues dark too, but I can tell you the barrel and sideplate look over polished and too dark and black to be rust bluing. I would almost (and I said almost) bet on it! In most pics the sideplate will APPEAR darker than the sides as it is canted slightly different angle than the side of the gun. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-24-2002, 11:04 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I agree with Dwight. The photo was taken out of focus and in unbalanced lighting... While it appears that the barrel and sideplate have been polished to a higher degree than the rest of the pistol, a much better photograph is necessary to properly judge this gun's condition. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-23-2002, 10:18 PM	#2
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just noticed something! The gun is listed as "all matching", well look at the ALUMINUM bottomed magazine! There is no way short of magic this Luger could be "all matching"!!! Brandon... P.S. Gun is on GunsAmerica.com

10-23-2002, 11:04 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	The photograph of the Luger presented above is not of sufficient quality or detail to be able to come to any conclusion about the characteristics of its surface blue. Some speculation based on observation and logic below, followed by answerable questions. I have noticed correct and matching Lugers where the condition of the sideplate is a bit different from the condition of the rest of the gun--usually a bit more rusted or pitted, if the gun is use worn rather than pristine. In my minds eye I recall Lugers where the bluing of the barrel appeared faintly different under close observation, as well. Without certain knowledge, I suspect that barrel steel is a different grade from the steel which makes up the rest of the gun. My observation of side plates leads me to speculate that these are different, as well. I would expect steel of different grades to accept bluing differently, and thus to appear slightly different after decades exposed to the environment. I have seen, and we have all had pointed out, that salt-blued extractors, for instance, 'plum' easily. Can anyone here speak authoritatively about the grades of steel used in various parts of the Luger, and can anyone (Thor??) comment on the bluing characteristics of these various parts? --Dwight