.224 Luger

Dwight Gruber · 01-24-2003, 10:59 PM

.22 centerfire Erfurt

No picture, I'm sorry to report, but I figured some people here might be interested...

--Dwight

Johnny C. Kitchens · 01-24-2003, 11:20 PM

In John Walter's book "Luger" he mentions the .224 Lowenstein. I have a 60's
magazine where they test the .224 Goldstein. I've always wondered if he got the
name wrong. It is a neat little cartridge...

Edward Tinker · 01-24-2003, 11:43 PM

I think it is an interesting idea, something kind of different?

Wonder if there are failure to feeds from the small head of the bullet?

Johnny C. Kitchens · 01-25-2003, 10:06 PM

In the Febuary 1964 issue of Gun World they have
an article on the .224 Goldstein. The barrel has an
effective length of 11". In this article, nothing is
done to the gun to make it function with the loads
developed, thus for the most part it is a manual
loader. With 40gr. bullets they get up to 2250fps!!!

Thor · 01-26-2003, 04:38 PM

Even as a single shot it would be terrific as a plinker or varmit pistol!

Hugh · 01-26-2003, 05:58 PM

<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />
Dwight,

Thanks for calling our attention to the 22 Lowenstein pistol. I just concluded the purchase of it. At present it looks as if it was rode hard and put away wet, but doesn't appear to be pitted, just a lot of bluing wear. A good project for Thor's Luger Clinic. <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" />

I can just picture this dude with a new blue job and an adjustable sight on the rear toggle! <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

<img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" />
Johnny Kitchens, I would like to get a copy of your magazine article if possible, especially the loading data, see your private messaging.

Dwight Gruber · 01-27-2003, 01:11 AM

Hugh,

Thats a very strange and wonderful pistol! I'm gratified to see the Luger and the ammunition for it.

--Dwight

Hugh · 01-28-2003, 01:58 AM

Rick,

Thanks for the info. The seller does not have dies and thinks that he may have "a cartridge or two". According to John Walter, the Lowenstein had a 26 deg shoulder. I will have to wait until I get the gun and take a chamber cast. I am hoping that RCBS will make a set of dies for me! According to Walter, Lowenstein was a California gunsmith who developed the cartridge in the 1950's. So maybe RCBS has the tooling for the dies. There was also a .224 Goldstein cartridge developed in the 1960's by a man of that name in the northeastern part of the US, and one developed in the same time frame in Australia that had a 30 deg neck.

Hugh · 02-01-2003, 08:37 PM

<img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> received the 22/30 Luger yesterday. Made a chamber cast today. It is not a Lowenstein or Goldstein--they had 26 degree shoulders. This one has a 45 deg shoulder, which makes it sharper and shorter than the other two. Looks kinda like a minature "Ackley Improved" cartridge. Will be contacting RCBS Monday to see about getting forming and loading dies made. Then after milling a dovetail for an adjustable MMC rear sight, off it goes to Thor for one of those fabulous "new blue" jobs while waiting on the dies. <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

Johnny C. Kitchens · 02-02-2003, 12:42 PM

Just imagine the velocity you can get with the 35gr. Hornady V-MAX. Might just be the thing for that pistol!!!

Hugh · 02-06-2003, 08:15 PM

I have had several email correspondence with Dave Davison of CH/4D. He was very helpful in advising me in what was needed to get this thing shooting. I have ordered THREE forming dies and a set of loading dies. Had to send a case cut off at the beginning of the shoulder and a chamber cast so that they could design the dies with the correct shoulder taper. This is getting to be a costly toy! <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" />

Hugh · 02-08-2003, 09:01 PM

Rick,
CH/4D has a neat neck sizing die with bushings, but due to the sharp shoulder angle of my case, they recommended seperate forming dies rather than it. You can see their bushing neck sizer die here: http://www.ch4d.com/ch4d/Catalog/Pag...20Neck%20Sizer

01-24-2003, 10:59 PM	#1
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	.224 Luger .22 centerfire Erfurt No picture, I'm sorry to report, but I figured some people here might be interested... --Dwight

01-24-2003, 11:20 PM	#2
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	In John Walter's book "Luger" he mentions the .224 Lowenstein. I have a 60's magazine where they test the .224 Goldstein. I've always wondered if he got the name wrong. It is a neat little cartridge... __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

01-24-2003, 11:43 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,910 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I think it is an interesting idea, something kind of different? Wonder if there are failure to feeds from the small head of the bullet? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-25-2003, 10:06 PM	#4
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	In the Febuary 1964 issue of Gun World they have an article on the .224 Goldstein. The barrel has an effective length of 11". In this article, nothing is done to the gun to make it function with the loads developed, thus for the most part it is a manual loader. With 40gr. bullets they get up to 2250fps!!! __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

01-26-2003, 04:38 PM	#5
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Even as a single shot it would be terrific as a plinker or varmit pistol! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

01-26-2003, 05:58 PM	#6
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	<img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" /> Dwight, Thanks for calling our attention to the 22 Lowenstein pistol. I just concluded the purchase of it. At present it looks as if it was rode hard and put away wet, but doesn't appear to be pitted, just a lot of bluing wear. A good project for Thor's Luger Clinic. <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" /> I can just picture this dude with a new blue job and an adjustable sight on the rear toggle! <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" /> Johnny Kitchens, I would like to get a copy of your magazine article if possible, especially the loading data, see your private messaging. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

01-27-2003, 01:11 AM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Hugh, Thats a very strange and wonderful pistol! I'm gratified to see the Luger and the ammunition for it. --Dwight

01-28-2003, 01:58 AM	#8
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Rick, Thanks for the info. The seller does not have dies and thinks that he may have "a cartridge or two". According to John Walter, the Lowenstein had a 26 deg shoulder. I will have to wait until I get the gun and take a chamber cast. I am hoping that RCBS will make a set of dies for me! According to Walter, Lowenstein was a California gunsmith who developed the cartridge in the 1950's. So maybe RCBS has the tooling for the dies. There was also a .224 Goldstein cartridge developed in the 1960's by a man of that name in the northeastern part of the US, and one developed in the same time frame in Australia that had a 30 deg neck. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

02-01-2003, 08:37 PM	#9
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	<img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> received the 22/30 Luger yesterday. Made a chamber cast today. It is not a Lowenstein or Goldstein--they had 26 degree shoulders. This one has a 45 deg shoulder, which makes it sharper and shorter than the other two. Looks kinda like a minature "Ackley Improved" cartridge. Will be contacting RCBS Monday to see about getting forming and loading dies made. Then after milling a dovetail for an adjustable MMC rear sight, off it goes to Thor for one of those fabulous "new blue" jobs while waiting on the dies. <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

02-02-2003, 12:42 PM	#10
Johnny C. Kitchens User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Arlington, Texas Posts: 518 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 8 Posts	Just imagine the velocity you can get with the 35gr. Hornady V-MAX. Might just be the thing for that pistol!!! __________________ Johnny C. Kitchens

02-06-2003, 08:15 PM	#11
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	I have had several email correspondence with Dave Davison of CH/4D. He was very helpful in advising me in what was needed to get this thing shooting. I have ordered THREE forming dies and a set of loading dies. Had to send a case cut off at the beginning of the shoulder and a chamber cast so that they could design the dies with the correct shoulder taper. This is getting to be a costly toy! <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[crying]" title="" src="graemlins/crying.gif" /> __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

02-08-2003, 09:01 PM	#12
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Rick, CH/4D has a neat neck sizing die with bushings, but due to the sharp shoulder angle of my case, they recommended seperate forming dies rather than it. You can see their bushing neck sizer die here: http://www.ch4d.com/ch4d/Catalog/Pag...20Neck%20Sizer __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*