Has this been refinished? <img BORDER="0" src='http://boards.rennlist.com/luger/pic.gif'>

Jerry G. · 10-21-2001, 07:42 PM

This is a picture (hopefully) of a 42 byf I got a couple of years ago. It is all matching, including grips, except magazine. The finish is great, no import marks. I am wondering if anyone can tell me if the finish looks original.

Thanks in advance, Jerry

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/002/7z/cb/1a/VJ16464.jpg

10-21-2001, 08:03 PM

Very hard for me to tell from a photo, but it looks good from here.....all edges are sharp, no rounding, original machining marks seem intact.

Either someone really knew what he was doing if he polished it, or this really *is* in that good a shape.

I would have to see it in person to be sure though.

Maybe I am being persnickety, but I *do* see that the takedown lever and sideplate "3"s are canted a bit to the left, whereas the safety and sear spring "3"s are not.

Ideas, guys?

BILL · 10-21-2001, 08:28 PM

It is hard to tell from any photo, but one quick way is to examine the surface for any pitting that has blue in the bottom of the pits. I am not sure that the letters Gesichert should be that deeply blued (assuming that they might have been white at one time). The 'canted' 3 is a strange quirk since that appears to have been a deliberate act. Sunlight or a mag-lite would *ahem..* shed some light on the situation.

Matt · 10-21-2001, 09:28 PM

The finish looks good to me, but I also wonder about the letters "gesichert." I believe these should be painted white but I guess it's possible the paint flaked off.

Don · 10-21-2001, 10:06 PM

Hi Guys,

I'd also be interested in what the consensus is on a "gesichert" w/o paint. I've got a similar similiar situation, and some of the evidence that makes me wonder if mine has been redone is the black "gesichert." Thanks.

Hugh · 10-21-2001, 11:31 PM

Along with no white in the lettering, what bothers me is the lack of a rub mark where the safety rubs on a 50+ year old gun. A beautiful gun, but? Hard to say without having it in my hands.

HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr · 10-22-2001, 01:04 AM

I don't belive it have been refinished.

Normally refinnished guns are farily obvius though they are polished everywhere and the original surfaces have been altered.

As you can see there has not been any polishing on the flat where gesichert stands, also do all other surfaces looks very good to me.

I don't belive the gun is missing any white paint at all, as I have understood it no guns have been originally deliverd with this pait, that is just an american collectors thing.

I think you should be very satisfied with your gun.

Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

John Sabato · 10-22-2001, 08:00 AM

on a 50 year old gun (especially a military issue gun), would indicate a refinish (a very good refinish) had been accomplished.

Even on my known refinsihed byf 41, it doesn't take too many "clicks" to have a scratch between Gesichert and shoot positions...

I vote refinsihed... on the other hand, You have a Very Beautifiul Luger sir...

Enjoy it.

John Sabato

10-22-2001, 09:18 AM

I concur with Hakan, I have a few Lugers that the Gesichert is more of a golden than white and I am 100% sure that it has'nt been re-done. The only thing that looks a little rounded is the proofmark on the toggle assembly. hard to tell with out magnification. I think you have a very nice piece in any case.

Tim

Johnny Peppers · 10-22-2001, 09:49 AM

Sorry, but the paint in the safety marking is not "an american collector thing". This was standard just as the bright metal safety marking on the early Lugers. The P38 also used paint to indicate the safety markings. The ivory/yellow color comes from the normal ageing of the paint.

There are many Lugers being put on the market that have been refinished without being buffed. The pistols are put through a mild acid bath that removes the remaining blue without etching the steel or destroying the original polish. The pistols are then blued, and the high spots taken back down to normal wear patterns. This is not being done by some amateur refinisher, but by very skilled individuals that make their living restoring Lugers.

10-22-2001, 11:07 PM

I do not recall if the white paint was continued through to 1942 but I have had lugers with white paint and P38s with white and red paint both that were original finish as far as anyone could tell. The photo does not show the high point wear well due to the general darkness and blueness of the photo shades. Despite that, I seem to see a place where the blue appears to be touched up--near the GESICHERT where the rub streak should appear.

10-21-2001, 07:42 PM	#1
Jerry G. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Has this been refinished? This is a picture (hopefully) of a 42 byf I got a couple of years ago. It is all matching, including grips, except magazine. The finish is great, no import marks. I am wondering if anyone can tell me if the finish looks original. Thanks in advance, Jerry http://wsphotofews.excite.com/002/7z/cb/1a/VJ16464.jpg

10-21-2001, 08:03 PM	#2
Hannah Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Has this been refinished? Very hard for me to tell from a photo, but it looks good from here.....all edges are sharp, no rounding, original machining marks seem intact. Either someone really knew what he was doing if he polished it, or this really is in that good a shape. I would have to see it in person to be sure though. Maybe I am being persnickety, but I do see that the takedown lever and sideplate "3"s are canted a bit to the left, whereas the safety and sear spring "3"s are not. Ideas, guys?

10-21-2001, 08:28 PM	#3
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Has this been refinished? It is hard to tell from any photo, but one quick way is to examine the surface for any pitting that has blue in the bottom of the pits. I am not sure that the letters Gesichert should be that deeply blued (assuming that they might have been white at one time). The 'canted' 3 is a strange quirk since that appears to have been a deliberate act. Sunlight or a mag-lite would ahem.. shed some light on the situation.

10-21-2001, 09:28 PM	#4
Matt User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 196 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Has this been refinished? The finish looks good to me, but I also wonder about the letters "gesichert." I believe these should be painted white but I guess it's possible the paint flaked off.

10-21-2001, 10:06 PM	#5
Don User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 146 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	"Gesichert" Hi Guys, I'd also be interested in what the consensus is on a "gesichert" w/o paint. I've got a similar similiar situation, and some of the evidence that makes me wonder if mine has been redone is the black "gesichert." Thanks.

10-21-2001, 11:31 PM	#6
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Re: Has this been refinished? Along with no white in the lettering, what bothers me is the lack of a rub mark where the safety rubs on a 50+ year old gun. A beautiful gun, but? Hard to say without having it in my hands.

10-22-2001, 01:04 AM	#7
HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 282 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Has this been refinished? I don't belive it have been refinished. Normally refinnished guns are farily obvius though they are polished everywhere and the original surfaces have been altered. As you can see there has not been any polishing on the flat where gesichert stands, also do all other surfaces looks very good to me. I don't belive the gun is missing any white paint at all, as I have understood it no guns have been originally deliverd with this pait, that is just an american collectors thing. I think you should be very satisfied with your gun. Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

10-22-2001, 08:00 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I concur with Hugh...No Rub Mark for the Safety on a 50 year old gun (especially a military issue gun), would indicate a refinish (a very good refinish) had been accomplished. Even on my known refinsihed byf 41, it doesn't take too many "clicks" to have a scratch between Gesichert and shoot positions... I vote refinsihed... on the other hand, You have a Very Beautifiul Luger sir... Enjoy it. John Sabato

10-22-2001, 09:18 AM	#9
TIMOTHY CANNEY Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Has this been refinished? I concur with Hakan, I have a few Lugers that the Gesichert is more of a golden than white and I am 100% sure that it has'nt been re-done. The only thing that looks a little rounded is the proofmark on the toggle assembly. hard to tell with out magnification. I think you have a very nice piece in any case. Tim

10-22-2001, 09:49 AM	#10
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Has this been refinished? Sorry, but the paint in the safety marking is not "an american collector thing". This was standard just as the bright metal safety marking on the early Lugers. The P38 also used paint to indicate the safety markings. The ivory/yellow color comes from the normal ageing of the paint. There are many Lugers being put on the market that have been refinished without being buffed. The pistols are put through a mild acid bath that removes the remaining blue without etching the steel or destroying the original polish. The pistols are then blued, and the high spots taken back down to normal wear patterns. This is not being done by some amateur refinisher, but by very skilled individuals that make their living restoring Lugers.

10-22-2001, 11:07 PM	#11
mlm Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Has this been refinished? I do not recall if the white paint was continued through to 1942 but I have had lugers with white paint and P38s with white and red paint both that were original finish as far as anyone could tell. The photo does not show the high point wear well due to the general darkness and blueness of the photo shades. Despite that, I seem to see a place where the blue appears to be touched up--near the GESICHERT where the rub streak should appear.