1920 Post WWI ?

MG · 08-09-2003, 02:02 AM

Hello,
I saw this on gunbroker is it real? I can't put my finger on it, but something looks funny about the gun? (frame? marks?)

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...?Item=10997638

If ok what is a fair price?

Thanks
Michael <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

policeluger · 08-09-2003, 02:10 AM

While it is a nice enough police Luger for under $400, as of right now, I would not buy a gun where the buyer is not offered at least a 3 day inspection/return period. To that end, I have a very nice police Luger, with matching clip, same period as one you listed above, $750 w/3day inspection

Ron Wood · 08-09-2003, 02:21 AM

I am no authority on Weimar police Lugers, but this one looks pretty good. I am guessing the markings are for Schutzpolizei Hanover (Security police Hanover) Second District. With a matching magazine also unit marked, if it is correct, it is a pretty nice Luger.

Policeluger makes a good point about inspection period. It looks like a good gun, but they list a telephone number, so I would not be hesitant to call them and ask some questions and request an inspection period before you bid on it.

Aaron · 08-09-2003, 06:54 AM

There is no way this pistol will sell for less than $700.

Edward Tinker · 08-09-2003, 07:23 AM

policelugers offer is a fair one, if he says it is a nice one, I'd believe him.

Ed

saxman · 08-10-2003, 07:52 PM

How does he establish it as a '1920'? I have a DWM with the same proofs, 4084h, no sear safety, and '1920' stamped over the chamber, which I have been told is a property mark, not a date. How can you tell by the info given on the auction that the Luger was made after 1918? I've been trying to date mine for years with no success, and am hoping this will give me a lead.

policeluger · 08-10-2003, 08:17 PM

I took the right side photo of the reciever into account. These are not pre 1918 proofs, but rather post 1918. The seller seems somewhat unsure of the gun, and states so in the add, this is a real buyer beware deal, as he also offers no return/inspection period. Are you sure of the proof marks on your Luger, are they the same as his? please let me know

saxman · 08-11-2003, 09:11 PM

Yes, I believe they are. Look for yourself.

policeluger · 08-11-2003, 10:00 PM

As I stated before, the seller is a bit unsure of what he has, or at least is leaving me with that impression. This police proof mark can be found on 1920 and above dated and undated chamber guns. If the question is, can he call this a 1920 gun, I think he does, with the caution too buyers he is not sure what the gun is. This is a real buyer beware situation. As Arron stated, this will bring a min $700.

saxman · 08-11-2003, 10:42 PM

So, could I call mine a 1920 since this is stamped on the gun and it has the 'police' proofs? Is there any way to determine when my DWM 4084h was made?

Edward Tinker · 08-11-2003, 10:58 PM

Gary, refresh my memory on your 1920?

Are these ArA4 or WaA4 markings? Still, Weimar Lugers says, "mostly found on newly manufactured 1920 and 1921 dated 20 DWM Lugers and Alphabet DWM Lugers. But a serail number of 4084h would not fit in, they made i through r on the undated variation. I am inclined (with the limited info given in THIS thread) to think it is a reworked Imperial Luger. Can you point me to the thread you originally posted?

Let me go look around....

Ed

pisto · 08-12-2003, 05:40 AM

This is an interesting topic, I have the same type 1920 Luger with the sear bar safety - unfortunatedly in a complete reworked condition with east German grips and mismatching - but the proof markes are the same and chamber stamped with 1920 as well. The front grip strap was unit marked, bevore reworking...
anyhow an interesting info for me. I want to get rid of my 1920 very fast and would be happy to own one like that on the auction.

saxman · 08-12-2003, 09:34 AM

Ed; They start with A - exactly like #31 in the proofs list. I also believe it is a reworked Imperial - the serial number leaves little doubt. So, does that mean the '1920' is indeed a property mark? If it's an Imperial, that would be 1918 or before, ja? Now I'm thinking police reworked 1914. Other features: reblued, but looks like rust blue to me; stock lug; no extra safeties or frame cut; typical DWM machining marks in frame 'ears'; small parts were strawed at one time; no other proofs except an Imperial eagle on the barrel, visible in the chamber date photo.

policeluger · 08-12-2003, 10:06 AM

Saxman, if this was is a model 1914, it would have a chamber date 1914 to 1918, if this is a earlier model, 1908 there would not be a chamber date, so we'll start at the model. Is it an 1908 or 1914 model. I am betting it is a "Dated Alphabet DWM" per Jan Still, but the "h" suffix is a bit off, I bet it still is correct, and tough too comment on with out seeing it in person. The 1920 is a property mark, newly manufacture or assembly from left over per 1918 parts and as Ed said started in the "i" range, but a lot of exception too the rules can be found in Wiemar period guns

saxman · 08-12-2003, 06:35 PM

Correction; The proof on the top of the barrel is actually just like the ones on the side. The stamp wasn't made to work on a round surface, so it's a partial.

08-09-2003, 02:02 AM	#1
MG User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 93 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1920 Post WWI ? Hello, I saw this on gunbroker is it real? I can't put my finger on it, but something looks funny about the gun? (frame? marks?) http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Vie...?Item=10997638 If ok what is a fair price? Thanks Michael <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" /> __________________ MG "Si vis pacem, para bellum" 'If you want peace,prepare for war'

08-09-2003, 07:23 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	policelugers offer is a fair one, if he says it is a nice one, I'd believe him. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-10-2003, 07:52 PM	#6
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	How does he establish it as a '1920'? I have a DWM with the same proofs, 4084h, no sear safety, and '1920' stamped over the chamber, which I have been told is a property mark, not a date. How can you tell by the info given on the auction that the Luger was made after 1918? I've been trying to date mine for years with no success, and am hoping this will give me a lead. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

08-11-2003, 09:11 PM	#8
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes, I believe they are. Look for yourself. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

08-11-2003, 10:42 PM	#10
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So, could I call mine a 1920 since this is stamped on the gun and it has the 'police' proofs? Is there any way to determine when my DWM 4084h was made? __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

08-09-2003, 02:10 AM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	While it is a nice enough police Luger for under $400, as of right now, I would not buy a gun where the buyer is not offered at least a 3 day inspection/return period. To that end, I have a very nice police Luger, with matching clip, same period as one you listed above, $750 w/3day inspection

08-09-2003, 02:21 AM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,096 Times in 1,676 Posts	I am no authority on Weimar police Lugers, but this one looks pretty good. I am guessing the markings are for Schutzpolizei Hanover (Security police Hanover) Second District. With a matching magazine also unit marked, if it is correct, it is a pretty nice Luger. Policeluger makes a good point about inspection period. It looks like a good gun, but they list a telephone number, so I would not be hesitant to call them and ask some questions and request an inspection period before you bid on it. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-09-2003, 06:54 AM	#4
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	There is no way this pistol will sell for less than $700.

08-10-2003, 08:17 PM	#7
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I took the right side photo of the reciever into account. These are not pre 1918 proofs, but rather post 1918. The seller seems somewhat unsure of the gun, and states so in the add, this is a real buyer beware deal, as he also offers no return/inspection period. Are you sure of the proof marks on your Luger, are they the same as his? please let me know

08-11-2003, 10:00 PM	#9
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	As I stated before, the seller is a bit unsure of what he has, or at least is leaving me with that impression. This police proof mark can be found on 1920 and above dated and undated chamber guns. If the question is, can he call this a 1920 gun, I think he does, with the caution too buyers he is not sure what the gun is. This is a real buyer beware situation. As Arron stated, this will bring a min $700.

08-11-2003, 10:58 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,912 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,502 Times in 2,077 Posts	Gary, refresh my memory on your 1920? Are these ArA4 or WaA4 markings? Still, Weimar Lugers says, "mostly found on newly manufactured 1920 and 1921 dated 20 DWM Lugers and Alphabet DWM Lugers. But a serail number of 4084h would not fit in, they made i through r on the undated variation. I am inclined (with the limited info given in THIS thread) to think it is a reworked Imperial Luger. Can you point me to the thread you originally posted? Let me go look around.... Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-12-2003, 05:40 AM	#12
pisto User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 228 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	This is an interesting topic, I have the same type 1920 Luger with the sear bar safety - unfortunatedly in a complete reworked condition with east German grips and mismatching - but the proof markes are the same and chamber stamped with 1920 as well. The front grip strap was unit marked, bevore reworking... anyhow an interesting info for me. I want to get rid of my 1920 very fast and would be happy to own one like that on the auction.

08-12-2003, 09:34 AM	#13
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed; They start with A - exactly like #31 in the proofs list. I also believe it is a reworked Imperial - the serial number leaves little doubt. So, does that mean the '1920' is indeed a property mark? If it's an Imperial, that would be 1918 or before, ja? Now I'm thinking police reworked 1914. Other features: reblued, but looks like rust blue to me; stock lug; no extra safeties or frame cut; typical DWM machining marks in frame 'ears'; small parts were strawed at one time; no other proofs except an Imperial eagle on the barrel, visible in the chamber date photo. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

08-12-2003, 10:06 AM	#14
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Saxman, if this was is a model 1914, it would have a chamber date 1914 to 1918, if this is a earlier model, 1908 there would not be a chamber date, so we'll start at the model. Is it an 1908 or 1914 model. I am betting it is a "Dated Alphabet DWM" per Jan Still, but the "h" suffix is a bit off, I bet it still is correct, and tough too comment on with out seeing it in person. The 1920 is a property mark, newly manufacture or assembly from left over per 1918 parts and as Ed said started in the "i" range, but a lot of exception too the rules can be found in Wiemar period guns

08-12-2003, 06:35 PM	#15
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Correction; The proof on the top of the barrel is actually just like the ones on the side. The stamp wasn't made to work on a round surface, so it's a partial. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.