Late 1906 Commercial - American Eagle

DonVoigt · 08-29-2015, 12:20 AM

I "found" this one last weekend, and from my reading this pistol,
number 69052 is just over the commonly reported high number for this type at 69000.

Probably made in 1913, just before DWM switched to P 08 production with the stock lug.

Excellent condition inside and out. Test fired and works just fine.

I don't really collect 7.65mm Lugers, but figured I "needed" one
for the collection when I found this nice one.

I'm curious about the marking on the rear of the frame; could be a
"3", "5", "S", or maybe something else. Any ideas?

Sergio Natali · 08-29-2015, 08:00 AM

Congratulations on your new acquisition, beautiful piece.

Sergio

alanint · 08-29-2015, 08:19 AM

The marking on the back looks like a double strike "5". It looks like the tool bounced and elongated the stricking.

Lugerdoc · 08-29-2015, 08:37 AM

Don, Nice one. With the horizontal C/N proofing and this serial range, your pistol would be classified as a M1914 commercial. The marking on the rear is probably just an inspection mark, whatever the letter or number is. TH

mcg · 08-29-2015, 09:39 AM

Beautiful pistol, you have to love the quality of these early commercial guns. You mag. also looks correct, from a amateurs point of view.

Mark

Dwight Gruber · 08-29-2015, 02:50 PM

Don,

By serial number, 1,000 guns before the stock lug was introduced into military production by the army in 1913. Also, I will opine differently from my friend Tom and point out that all physical characteristics of this pistol are New Model Parabellum.

But I nitpick. This is a very nice pistol, and significant in a commercial Luger.

--Dwight

4 Scale · 08-29-2015, 03:20 PM

Really nice AE, where was it "found"?

cirelaw · 08-29-2015, 03:24 PM

Great Photography!!

DonVoigt · 08-29-2015, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4 Scale

Really nice AE, where was it "found"?

Very small show here in NC, but from a well traveled collector.

No history.

DonVoigt · 08-29-2015, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

Don,

By serial number, 1,000 guns before the stock lug was introduced into military production by the army in 1913. Also, I will opine differently from my friend Tom and point out that all physical characteristics of this pistol are New Model Parabellum.

But I nitpick. This is a very nice pistol, and significant in a commercial Luger.

--Dwight

Thanks Dwight,
then I'm to think this is properly described as a 1906, and made in 1913?

What is or would be a 1914 Commercial?

Dwight Gruber · 08-30-2015, 01:05 AM

Don,

You have conveniently pushed a soapbox firmly under my feet.

This Luger is properly described as a New Model Parabellum, made in 1913.

P08 Commercial with stock lug are made after the military introduction of the stock lug in 1913.

Please see the commentary associated with this link http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=31901

--Dwight

DonVoigt · 08-30-2015, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

Don,

You have conveniently pushed a soapbox firmly under my feet.

This Luger is properly described as a New Model Parabellum, made in 1913.

P08 Commercial with stock lug are made after the military introduction of the stock lug in 1913.

Please see the commentary associated with this link http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=31901

--Dwight

Dwight,
I did read that post, twice in fact. My heads still swimming?

I understand that what you say is correct, it is just that if I write:
"new model parabellum", near everyone will ask "which model"!

Thanks for the clarification, 1913 it is.

Dwight Gruber · 08-30-2015, 12:44 PM

...but not 1913 variation!!...

--Dwight

DonVoigt · 08-30-2015, 03:10 PM

Got it, had it, I think-

New Model Parabellum made in 1913 with American eagle crest/seal.

cirelaw · 08-30-2015, 04:04 PM

How many Eagle models were produced in Germany for exportation to the U.S. It would be a heck of a collection! Eric

Ron Wood · 08-30-2015, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

How many Eagle models were produced in Germany for exportation to the U.S. It would be a heck of a collection! Eric

Model 1900 "Old Model", which includes the "standard" Commercial 7.65mm starting with serial number 2002 and the 7.65mm US Test Trials model; Model 1902 "Old Model" which includes the 9mm '02 "Fat Barrel'" and the US Test Trials "Cartridge Counter"; Model 1906 "New Model" both 7.65mm and 9mm; Model 1920"ish" post-war commercials typically the "Safe/Loaded" variation. So for Eagle models that can be "categorized" I would say seven. I am not including the modern reproduction AE stainless guns marketed under various brands as they were not produced in Germany.

Dwight Gruber · 08-30-2015, 04:51 PM

Eric,

If you look at the tiniest detail variations at least 12, perhaps as many as 16 depending on the oddball pistols which may show up.

Yes, the thought has occurred to me...

--Dwight

Dwight Gruber · 08-30-2015, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Got it, had it, I think-

New Model Parabellum made in 1913 with American eagle crest/seal.

Ahhhhh, perfect!!

cirelaw · 08-30-2015, 05:51 PM

This was the golden age of Lugers, I'm thankful some primos survived! Its a miracle that DWM could produce the quantity and quality especially in war time! The Eagle crest was ingenious! And of course custom lugers geared for a different country with emblems are in high demand~ He was a marketing genius. Wars didn't always produce all lugers but perfection and engineering did and continues their demand to this day! One more! Was there a year or early model that was manufactured of the highest quality besides presentation pieces~ Eric PS Where did they acquire their Eagle dyes. Almost a counterfeit or trademark infridgement. Eric

4 Scale · 08-31-2015, 10:02 AM

Don thanks for the info, congratulations on a very nice pistol.

May I ask what you paid for it? I find I'm getting more and more interested in these pre-WWI Parabellums. Like you I feel the "need" for a nice example. If you'd rather not that's perfectly fine. Just trying to "calibrate" my market knowledge as my career as Luger Searcher progresses. I'm highly interested in what people offer/actually pay.

08-29-2015, 12:20 AM	#1
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Late 1906 Commercial - American Eagle I "found" this one last weekend, and from my reading this pistol, number 69052 is just over the commonly reported high number for this type at 69000. Probably made in 1913, just before DWM switched to P 08 production with the stock lug. Excellent condition inside and out. Test fired and works just fine. I don't really collect 7.65mm Lugers, but figured I "needed" one for the collection when I found this nice one. I'm curious about the marking on the rear of the frame; could be a "3", "5", "S", or maybe something else. Any ideas? Attached Thumbnails Attached Images Last edited by DonVoigt; 08-30-2015 at 10:12 AM.

08-29-2015, 08:00 AM	#2
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Congratulations on your new acquisition, beautiful piece. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

08-29-2015, 08:37 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Don, Nice one. With the horizontal C/N proofing and this serial range, your pistol would be classified as a M1914 commercial. The marking on the rear is probably just an inspection mark, whatever the letter or number is. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-29-2015, 08:19 AM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	The marking on the back looks like a double strike "5". It looks like the tool bounced and elongated the stricking.

08-29-2015, 09:39 AM	#5
mcg Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Houston, TX. Posts: 89 Thanks: 252 Thanked 28 Times in 20 Posts	Beautiful pistol, you have to love the quality of these early commercial guns. You mag. also looks correct, from a amateurs point of view. Mark

08-29-2015, 02:50 PM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Don, By serial number, 1,000 guns before the stock lug was introduced into military production by the army in 1913. Also, I will opine differently from my friend Tom and point out that all physical characteristics of this pistol are New Model Parabellum. But I nitpick. This is a very nice pistol, and significant in a commercial Luger. --Dwight

08-29-2015, 03:20 PM	#7
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	Really nice AE, where was it "found"?

08-29-2015, 03:24 PM	#8
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Great Photography!!

08-30-2015, 01:05 AM	#11
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Don, You have conveniently pushed a soapbox firmly under my feet. This Luger is properly described as a New Model Parabellum, made in 1913. P08 Commercial with stock lug are made after the military introduction of the stock lug in 1913. Please see the commentary associated with this link http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=31901 --Dwight

08-30-2015, 12:44 PM	#13
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	...but not 1913 variation!!... --Dwight

08-30-2015, 03:10 PM	#14
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Got it, had it, I think- New Model Parabellum made in 1913 with American eagle crest/seal.

08-30-2015, 04:04 PM	#15
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	How many Eagle models were produced in Germany for exportation to the U.S. It would be a heck of a collection! Eric

08-30-2015, 04:51 PM	#17
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Eric, If you look at the tiniest detail variations at least 12, perhaps as many as 16 depending on the oddball pistols which may show up. Yes, the thought has occurred to me... --Dwight

08-30-2015, 05:51 PM	#19
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	This was the golden age of Lugers, I'm thankful some primos survived! Its a miracle that DWM could produce the quantity and quality especially in war time! The Eagle crest was ingenious! And of course custom lugers geared for a different country with emblems are in high demand~ He was a marketing genius. Wars didn't always produce all lugers but perfection and engineering did and continues their demand to this day! One more! Was there a year or early model that was manufactured of the highest quality besides presentation pieces~ Eric PS Where did they acquire their Eagle dyes. Almost a counterfeit or trademark infridgement. Eric

08-31-2015, 10:02 AM	#20
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	Don thanks for the info, congratulations on a very nice pistol. May I ask what you paid for it? I find I'm getting more and more interested in these pre-WWI Parabellums. Like you I feel the "need" for a nice example. If you'd rather not that's perfectly fine. Just trying to "calibrate" my market knowledge as my career as Luger Searcher progresses. I'm highly interested in what people offer/actually pay.