Artillery Grip strap Markings

jamese · 07-22-2003, 06:02 AM

What do you guys think ?

According to Jeff NollÃ¢??s book , I think it is

Reserve Jager Brigade #15

<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/RJB15.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/RJB15.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Most of the Reserve markings IÃ¢??ve observed, the "R" is in script

Any other opinions would be welcome

Jim

John Sabato · 07-22-2003, 09:08 AM

If you have Jeff Noll's book... then I would think you are correct... I remember that Jan Still once used Jeff's book as a reference during the time when he honored us by posting on this forum on a regular basis.

jamese · 07-23-2003, 06:37 AM

John,
I remember that too!, but he and ED are to busy taking care if his board I think.

Navy · 07-23-2003, 09:27 PM

Gents,
If I may offer an alternative solution.
First of all, Jaeger units were not reserve formations, as I understand the German order of battle (I may be dead wrong and will take the hit if so).
Second, the Germanic J= the English I. So, I would posit this as a Reserve INFANTRY regiment piece.
My zwei pfennigs.
Tom A.

Brandon · 07-23-2003, 09:50 PM

Tom,
Jeff's book lists in the regimental marking directory (Pg. 58), the markings R.J. and R.J.P which are supposed to mean "Reserve Jaeger Battalion" and "Reserve Mounted Jaeger Regiment" so appearently there were Reserve Jaeger units...

Best Regards, Brandon

jamese · 07-24-2003, 05:00 AM

Tom,
I think your assessment of the German language is correct the J for I. Upon closer examination of JeffÃ¢??s book page 58 it looks to me that the Ã¢?? RÃ¢?Â has to be in script for a Reserve unit in every case except for Infantry units.

<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/book.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/book.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

(Hope Jeff doesnÃ¢??t mind me posting a small partial page in his book)

[Photo thumbnailed by Admin-JS]

With this in mind, I think Tom is right! the marking should indicate Ã¢?? Reserve Infantry BattalionÃ¢?Â
I donÃ¢??t see the Ã¢??R.J.BÃ¢?Â listed and was just checking to see if someone had any other ideas or have observed this marking before.

Thanks,
Jim

Jeff Noll · 07-29-2003, 04:58 AM

To jamese/John Sabato/Tom A/Brandon, Great discussion! A couple of thing to keep in mind. First, prior to May 1915 Jaeger formations were Battalions (see pages 159 &160/also see page 17). There were 14 Jaeger Battalions and 24 Reserve Jaeger Battalions. Second, Jaeger troops were integrated into Infantry Divisions as well as Reserve Infantry Divisons. They were a type of specialized troop. Third and most important to this disccussion is that during the War the script "R" and Roman "R" were interchanged to designate "Reserve". I should have added a paragraph in Chapter 2 discussing this as this is a point of confusion. Generally the placement of the "R" is very important. If placement is before the unit's primary letter designator it means "Reserve". If it is after the unit's primary letter designator it means "Regiment". Example A.R. = Artillery Regiment, R.A. = Reserve Artillery Regiment. I hope this helps http://home.earthlink.net/~nopubl Jeff Noll

John Sabato · 07-29-2003, 01:58 PM

Thanks for the clarification Jeff... we don't hear from you often enough...

Jeff Noll · 07-30-2003, 04:03 AM

John, I will try to spend more time here. Work pretty much spends me each day. Jeff

Brandon · 07-30-2003, 04:48 AM

Jeff,
I didn't even know you were a member here!

Your book is a great resource, Thanks for taking the time to put it together (and for signing my copy)!

Glad to see you on the forum!

Best Regards, Brandon

jamese · 07-30-2003, 11:22 AM

Jeff,
Thanks for your response and the info on the "R".

So to make sure I understand the markings
(a little slow sometimes, I think its the south Fl heat)

The posted marking should mean:

Reserve Jaeger Battalion #15 ?

Thor · 07-30-2003, 07:04 PM

James, I have responded to your questions of a few days ago, by reply to Private message and also several times by email. Please let me know you got this. Thanks!

Jeff Noll · 08-01-2003, 05:48 AM

jamese. Yes, Reserve Jaeger Battalion 15 is my read. w/r Jeff

jamese · 08-01-2003, 06:47 AM

Ted,
I normally get a mgs that someone sent me private mail sorry.

Thanks Jeff for the read

Jeff Noll · 08-17-2003, 09:17 PM

jamese, Would you send me your lugers maker/date and serial number for my data base? thx Jeff nopubl@earthlink.net

07-22-2003, 09:08 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	If you have Jeff Noll's book... then I would think you are correct... I remember that Jan Still once used Jeff's book as a reference during the time when he honored us by posting on this forum on a regular basis. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-23-2003, 06:37 AM	#3
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	John, I remember that too!, but he and ED are to busy taking care if his board I think. __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

07-24-2003, 05:00 AM	#6
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	Tom, I think your assessment of the German language is correct the J for I. Upon closer examination of JeffÃ¢??s book page 58 it looks to me that the Ã¢?? RÃ¢?Â has to be in script for a Reserve unit in every case except for Infantry units. <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/book.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/book.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> (Hope Jeff doesnÃ¢??t mind me posting a small partial page in his book) [Photo thumbnailed by Admin-JS] With this in mind, I think Tom is right! the marking should indicate Ã¢?? Reserve Infantry BattalionÃ¢?Â I donÃ¢??t see the Ã¢??R.J.BÃ¢?Â listed and was just checking to see if someone had any other ideas or have observed this marking before. Thanks, Jim __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

07-29-2003, 01:58 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Thanks for the clarification Jeff... we don't hear from you often enough... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-30-2003, 11:22 AM	#11
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	Jeff, Thanks for your response and the info on the "R". So to make sure I understand the markings (a little slow sometimes, I think its the south Fl heat) The posted marking should mean: Reserve Jaeger Battalion #15 ? __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

07-22-2003, 06:02 AM	#1
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	Artillery Grip strap Markings What do you guys think ? According to Jeff NollÃ¢??s book , I think it is Reserve Jager Brigade #15 <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/RJB15.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/RJB15.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> Most of the Reserve markings IÃ¢??ve observed, the "R" is in script Any other opinions would be welcome Jim __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

07-23-2003, 09:27 PM	#4
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Gents, If I may offer an alternative solution. First of all, Jaeger units were not reserve formations, as I understand the German order of battle (I may be dead wrong and will take the hit if so). Second, the Germanic J= the English I. So, I would posit this as a Reserve INFANTRY regiment piece. My zwei pfennigs. Tom A.

07-23-2003, 09:50 PM	#5
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tom, Jeff's book lists in the regimental marking directory (Pg. 58), the markings R.J. and R.J.P which are supposed to mean "Reserve Jaeger Battalion" and "Reserve Mounted Jaeger Regiment" so appearently there were Reserve Jaeger units... Best Regards, Brandon

07-29-2003, 04:58 AM	#7
Jeff Noll User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 7 Posts	To jamese/John Sabato/Tom A/Brandon, Great discussion! A couple of thing to keep in mind. First, prior to May 1915 Jaeger formations were Battalions (see pages 159 &160/also see page 17). There were 14 Jaeger Battalions and 24 Reserve Jaeger Battalions. Second, Jaeger troops were integrated into Infantry Divisions as well as Reserve Infantry Divisons. They were a type of specialized troop. Third and most important to this disccussion is that during the War the script "R" and Roman "R" were interchanged to designate "Reserve". I should have added a paragraph in Chapter 2 discussing this as this is a point of confusion. Generally the placement of the "R" is very important. If placement is before the unit's primary letter designator it means "Reserve". If it is after the unit's primary letter designator it means "Regiment". Example A.R. = Artillery Regiment, R.A. = Reserve Artillery Regiment. I hope this helps http://home.earthlink.net/~nopubl Jeff Noll

07-30-2003, 04:03 AM	#9
Jeff Noll User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 7 Posts	John, I will try to spend more time here. Work pretty much spends me each day. Jeff

07-30-2003, 04:48 AM	#10
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jeff, I didn't even know you were a member here! Your book is a great resource, Thanks for taking the time to put it together (and for signing my copy)! Glad to see you on the forum! Best Regards, Brandon

07-30-2003, 07:04 PM	#12
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	James, I have responded to your questions of a few days ago, by reply to Private message and also several times by email. Please let me know you got this. Thanks! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

08-01-2003, 05:48 AM	#13
Jeff Noll User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 7 Posts	jamese. Yes, Reserve Jaeger Battalion 15 is my read. w/r Jeff

08-01-2003, 06:47 AM	#14
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 789 Thanks: 0 Thanked 84 Times in 34 Posts	Ted, I normally get a mgs that someone sent me private mail sorry. Thanks Jeff for the read __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

08-17-2003, 09:17 PM	#15
Jeff Noll User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 7 Posts	jamese, Would you send me your lugers maker/date and serial number for my data base? thx Jeff nopubl@earthlink.net