Navy Mark

Pistol · 12-10-2017, 11:51 AM

Does this navy Eagle/M mark look correct? It is on a G date with a serial number that falls within the proper range.

mrerick · 12-10-2017, 01:29 PM

No... I'm pretty confident it is a fake, but then again I am not a Navy Luger expert...

DonVoigt · 12-10-2017, 01:40 PM

Check out the Navies reported in Weimar Lugers by Still.
The E/m is a little different and the 717 is quite a few #s earlier than the first reported G date.

But then, Weimar times were odd.

Pistol · 12-10-2017, 02:05 PM

Here is one from legacy that sold recently (see link below). I think they started in the d block. This one is later with a higher inventory number. I zoomed in on its Eagle/M and it is a little different from the other example. So, wonder if the markings can vary......maybe with pantograph marks more so than stamps?

https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/...uger-2069.html

Pistol · 12-10-2017, 02:08 PM

Zoomed more and side by side

gunbugs · 12-10-2017, 06:01 PM

if you ask me, (and you didn't), 1220 "looks" real,717"looks" faked.

mrerick · 12-10-2017, 07:07 PM

The one with N 717 has what look like chicken feet...

Pistol · 12-10-2017, 09:18 PM

Here are two others that look different than the first two. These look more ornate and have eyes. Feet are also different.

DonVoigt · 12-10-2017, 09:55 PM

The other "eagles" appear to have more detail than 717.
It is obvious that they vary, tough call.

gunbugs · 12-10-2017, 10:37 PM

All the what appear to be "authentic" M marks have curved legs on the "M". The apparent fake has straight legs. That and the chicken doesn't "look right". But that's just my observation and judgement call. YMMV.

Pistol · 12-11-2017, 08:46 AM

It seems they all are different. But would that be expected if pantographed by different people or even the same person that changed it from earlier eagles? Possibly making it more ornate over time.

Or it could be a mechanic boosting a perfectly good G date to turn it into a rarer gun. Apparently the estimate is 700 of them in the d, e, and f blocks.

Norme · 12-11-2017, 09:13 AM

If you want to be certain that you are not buying an expensive fake then avoid Third Reich Navy Lugers altogether. That's what I do and I'm a Navy Luger specialist! I would give the same advice to anyone contemplating buying a "Death Head" Luger, they too have pantographed markings. Simply put, there is no sure way of distinguishing good from bad.
Norm

Pistol · 12-11-2017, 11:29 AM

Here is yet another that has its own characteristics

Pistol · 12-11-2017, 11:31 AM

Norme,

That is great advice since it sure does seem hard to tell an original.

12-10-2017, 11:51 AM	#1
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Navy Mark Does this navy Eagle/M mark look correct? It is on a G date with a serial number that falls within the proper range. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

12-10-2017, 01:29 PM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	No... I'm pretty confident it is a fake, but then again I am not a Navy Luger expert... __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war. Last edited by mrerick; 12-10-2017 at 07:06 PM.

12-10-2017, 01:40 PM	#3
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Check out the Navies reported in Weimar Lugers by Still. The E/m is a little different and the 717 is quite a few #s earlier than the first reported G date. But then, Weimar times were odd. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-10-2017, 02:05 PM	#4
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Here is one from legacy that sold recently (see link below). I think they started in the d block. This one is later with a higher inventory number. I zoomed in on its Eagle/M and it is a little different from the other example. So, wonder if the markings can vary......maybe with pantograph marks more so than stamps? https://www.legacy-collectibles.com/...uger-2069.html Attached Images

12-10-2017, 02:08 PM	#5
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Zoomed more and side by side Attached Thumbnails Attached Images Last edited by Pistol; 12-11-2017 at 11:39 AM.

12-10-2017, 06:01 PM	#6
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 635 Thanks: 335 Thanked 1,139 Times in 377 Posts	if you ask me, (and you didn't), 1220 "looks" real,717"looks" faked.

12-10-2017, 07:07 PM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	The one with N 717 has what look like chicken feet... __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

12-10-2017, 09:18 PM	#8
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Here are two others that look different than the first two. These look more ornate and have eyes. Feet are also different. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

12-10-2017, 09:55 PM	#9
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	The other "eagles" appear to have more detail than 717. It is obvious that they vary, tough call. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

12-10-2017, 10:37 PM	#10
gunbugs Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska. Home of the best moose. Posts: 635 Thanks: 335 Thanked 1,139 Times in 377 Posts	All the what appear to be "authentic" M marks have curved legs on the "M". The apparent fake has straight legs. That and the chicken doesn't "look right". But that's just my observation and judgement call. YMMV.

12-11-2017, 08:46 AM	#11
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	It seems they all are different. But would that be expected if pantographed by different people or even the same person that changed it from earlier eagles? Possibly making it more ornate over time. Or it could be a mechanic boosting a perfectly good G date to turn it into a rarer gun. Apparently the estimate is 700 of them in the d, e, and f blocks.

12-11-2017, 09:13 AM	#12
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	If you want to be certain that you are not buying an expensive fake then avoid Third Reich Navy Lugers altogether. That's what I do and I'm a Navy Luger specialist! I would give the same advice to anyone contemplating buying a "Death Head" Luger, they too have pantographed markings. Simply put, there is no sure way of distinguishing good from bad. Norm

12-11-2017, 11:29 AM	#13
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Here is yet another that has its own characteristics Attached Thumbnails

12-11-2017, 11:31 AM	#14
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: TN Posts: 421 Thanks: 430 Thanked 214 Times in 95 Posts	Norme, That is great advice since it sure does seem hard to tell an original.