Naval Luger inquiry

Btucker · 08-13-2017, 04:38 PM

This 1906 DWM Luger was left to me by my father who had obtained it in post-war Japan when he was part of the occupation forces under MacArthur. The barrel has been “dinged” in what I believe was an attempt to decommission it. I fired it back in the early 1970s and it’s very inaccurate. We used to play “Army” with it when we were kids in the 60s.

I was given some history of it at a gun show in Birmingham, Alabama, back in 1985 and recently read a much more thorough one at:

http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com...gouvkiau06.htm

Due to its rarity, I imagine that it’s probably worth more what I’ve assumed and will need to purchase insurance for it. Does anyone have a ballpark estimate as to its worth?

This pistol was a gift from my now deceased father and I have no intention of selling it regardless of its worth.

Thanks in advance for your help.

-Bob Tucker

Norme · 08-13-2017, 05:53 PM

Hi Bob,
Welcome to the forum! Your father left you a very rare and valuable gun. The Gouv./Kiau unit mark is the most desirable of all Imperial Navy unit marks. It signifies the garrison in Kiauchou, Imperial Germany's colony and naval base on the Chinese mainland. The Gouv./Kiau marking is frequently faked, but yours looks genuine to me. I maintain a data base of all known surviving Navy Lugers and would like to include yours, so please let me know it's serial number with suffix letter if present.
If you would like a link to the Navy List send me your email address by private message on the forum.
Regards, Norm

Edward Tinker · 08-13-2017, 06:43 PM

I took out your email as a tag - not a good idea, please PM or email folks

was a bit puzzled why you put in phoenixarms, but guess you found one like it?

DonVoigt · 08-13-2017, 07:09 PM

Bob,
nice luger. Few "stories" match the circumstances- but yours sounds entirely plausible- as the Chinese likely confiscated the pistol from the Germans, then Japanese likely liberated the pistol from the Chinese, and then the US from the Japanese! At least it was found in the correct hemisphere.

I'm not much of a believer in insurance- other than a good safe!

m1903a3 · 08-13-2017, 08:04 PM

The fact that it was the Japanese and not the Chinese who captured the German Naval base at Kiauchou is pretty good confirmation of the history of your pistol.

The marking on the side indicates it belonged to the 4th company of the 3rd Seebatallion. The barrel ding is unfortunate, but it still remains a rare pistol.

Btucker · 08-13-2017, 08:26 PM

Hi Norm,

The Luger is in a friend's safe but I'll send the serial number next time I see him.

Thanks,

-BT

Btucker · 08-14-2017, 07:33 PM

The grip safety is broken and I'd like to have it disassembled, fixed, and cleaned by someone with the necessary skills to do so. Any suggestions?

Also, any suggestions as to its worth?

DonVoigt · 08-14-2017, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Btucker

The grip safety is broken and I'd like to have it disassembled, fixed, and cleaned by someone with the necessary skills to do so. Any suggestions?

Also, any suggestions as to its worth?

In what way is the grip safety broken?

I don't think these sell often enough to be able to give a value.
What it might sell for depends on many factors- as I'm sure you are aware.

Btucker · 08-14-2017, 08:18 PM

It doesn't spring back into the extended (away from the grip) position.

m1903a3 · 08-14-2017, 08:48 PM

The spring may be broken, or it might simply be disabled. A lot of them were disabled while the Imperial navy still owned them. Post a good clear photo of the left side of the grip with the wooden grip removed.

Ron Wood · 08-14-2017, 11:05 PM

There is a better than even chance it is just assembled wrong. I have seen more grip safety Lugers than I can remember that were assembled without engaging the lug of the grip safety to the spring.
Many years ago I bought a "broken" 1900 AE at a discount only to find out after I got home that there was nothing wrong with it.
Ron

Lugerdoc · 08-15-2017, 10:26 AM

BT, As mentioned above, please check that the inside tab of your grip safety is aft of the spring, to provide pressure to return it to the rear. If your spring is missing or broken, I did have some good copies made @$50 postpaid. TH

Btucker · 08-15-2017, 08:04 PM

Thanks for the advice. I'll check these things out when I visit my friend who is keeping the pistol in his gun safe.

08-13-2017, 04:38 PM	#1
Btucker User Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 5 Thanks: 8 Thanked 6 Times in 1 Post	Naval Luger inquiry This 1906 DWM Luger was left to me by my father who had obtained it in post-war Japan when he was part of the occupation forces under MacArthur. The barrel has been “dinged” in what I believe was an attempt to decommission it. I fired it back in the early 1970s and it’s very inaccurate. We used to play “Army” with it when we were kids in the 60s. I was given some history of it at a gun show in Birmingham, Alabama, back in 1985 and recently read a much more thorough one at: http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com...gouvkiau06.htm Due to its rarity, I imagine that it’s probably worth more what I’ve assumed and will need to purchase insurance for it. Does anyone have a ballpark estimate as to its worth? This pistol was a gift from my now deceased father and I have no intention of selling it regardless of its worth. Thanks in advance for your help. -Bob Tucker Attached Thumbnails

08-13-2017, 07:09 PM	#4
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Bob, nice luger. Few "stories" match the circumstances- but yours sounds entirely plausible- as the Chinese likely confiscated the pistol from the Germans, then Japanese likely liberated the pistol from the Chinese, and then the US from the Japanese! At least it was found in the correct hemisphere. I'm not much of a believer in insurance- other than a good safe! __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

08-13-2017, 08:04 PM	#5
m1903a3 User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 197 Thanks: 26 Thanked 315 Times in 112 Posts	The fact that it was the Japanese and not the Chinese who captured the German Naval base at Kiauchou is pretty good confirmation of the history of your pistol. The marking on the side indicates it belonged to the 4th company of the 3rd Seebatallion. The barrel ding is unfortunate, but it still remains a rare pistol. __________________ - Mike Life member: NRA, OVMS, VGCA Member: NAPCA, N-SSA(Veteran) Si vis pacem, para bellum

08-14-2017, 08:48 PM	#10
m1903a3 User Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Virginia Posts: 197 Thanks: 26 Thanked 315 Times in 112 Posts	The spring may be broken, or it might simply be disabled. A lot of them were disabled while the Imperial navy still owned them. Post a good clear photo of the left side of the grip with the wooden grip removed. __________________ - Mike Life member: NRA, OVMS, VGCA Member: NAPCA, N-SSA(Veteran) Si vis pacem, para bellum

08-14-2017, 11:05 PM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	There is a better than even chance it is just assembled wrong. I have seen more grip safety Lugers than I can remember that were assembled without engaging the lug of the grip safety to the spring. Many years ago I bought a "broken" 1900 AE at a discount only to find out after I got home that there was nothing wrong with it. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-13-2017, 05:53 PM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,414 Thanks: 224 Thanked 2,591 Times in 930 Posts	Hi Bob, Welcome to the forum! Your father left you a very rare and valuable gun. The Gouv./Kiau unit mark is the most desirable of all Imperial Navy unit marks. It signifies the garrison in Kiauchou, Imperial Germany's colony and naval base on the Chinese mainland. The Gouv./Kiau marking is frequently faked, but yours looks genuine to me. I maintain a data base of all known surviving Navy Lugers and would like to include yours, so please let me know it's serial number with suffix letter if present. If you would like a link to the Navy List send me your email address by private message on the forum. Regards, Norm

08-13-2017, 06:43 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I took out your email as a tag - not a good idea, please PM or email folks was a bit puzzled why you put in phoenixarms, but guess you found one like it?

08-13-2017, 08:26 PM	#6
Btucker User Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 5 Thanks: 8 Thanked 6 Times in 1 Post	Hi Norm, The Luger is in a friend's safe but I'll send the serial number next time I see him. Thanks, -BT

08-14-2017, 07:33 PM	#7
Btucker User Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 5 Thanks: 8 Thanked 6 Times in 1 Post	The grip safety is broken and I'd like to have it disassembled, fixed, and cleaned by someone with the necessary skills to do so. Any suggestions? Also, any suggestions as to its worth?

08-14-2017, 08:18 PM	#9
Btucker User Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 5 Thanks: 8 Thanked 6 Times in 1 Post	It doesn't spring back into the extended (away from the grip) position.

08-15-2017, 10:26 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	BT, As mentioned above, please check that the inside tab of your grip safety is aft of the spring, to provide pressure to return it to the rear. If your spring is missing or broken, I did have some good copies made @$50 postpaid. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-15-2017, 08:04 PM	#13
Btucker User Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 5 Thanks: 8 Thanked 6 Times in 1 Post	Thanks for the advice. I'll check these things out when I visit my friend who is keeping the pistol in his gun safe.