Looking for 1905 45 ACP Luger blueprints

LugerMan.com · 02-14-2012, 12:58 PM

Hi,
I have been thinking about making a small batch of 45 ACP 1905 Luger reproductions.

For the longest time i have been looking for a set of blueprints or a one of the modern copies to make blue prints from.

Any one has a source of one or the other ?
I know it's a long shot ... but if I do not start looking, i will never be able to for-fill my dream.

I am willing to make generous compensation for a complete set of blue prints or a gun to make them from.

Also what do you think about a market interest of such item ?

Thanks.

Ron Wood · 02-14-2012, 03:18 PM

Mike Krause in California has been making exact replicas of the .45 Luger for a number of years. He had access to, and reverse engineered, the .45 Luger formerly in the Aberman collection. I suspect that Mike has made engineering drawings for his production but I doubt he would be willing to share

(but I could be wrong!). I purchased his production serial number 7 from him quite a while ago. I don't know how many he produced or if he is still making them

LugerMan.com · 02-14-2012, 03:34 PM

Do you still have the item that you purchased from him ?
Can we arrange something that will let me reverse engineer what you have ?

Ron Wood · 02-14-2012, 04:34 PM

Eugene,
I still have it. I am a bit reluctant to ship around a $15,000 item, and would not do so without Mike's permission. He has proprietary interest in the design. You might contact him directly to get his feelings about sharing. His website is http://www.krausewerk.com/
Ron

LugerMan.com · 02-14-2012, 04:39 PM

Thanks for the tip and for the link.

Just got of the phone with Mike.
He told me he is at the end of the production of his Luger 45s he is done about 50.

He also is willing to sell me blue prints for only 2.5 K.
Witch sounds very reasonable to me.

I visit San Francisco every 2 years and i may visit his shop,
he actually offered some over run parts he may have for the 45.

So, may be i will have my dream after all.

I was going to make some 45 navy guns as well as carbines.

Just need to scope out the market for it ...

Ron Wood · 02-14-2012, 04:43 PM

Glad you were able to get through to Mike! Hopefully everything will work out for you. I wish you the best of luck.

Man, I would love to have a .45 carbine!...but I am well past the time I could afford such a jewel (retired fixed income and all that

)
Ron

sheepherder · 02-14-2012, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LugerMan.com

He also is willing to sell me blue prints for only 2.5 K.
Witch sounds very reasonable to me.

$2500???

(Where's my defibrillator..."I'se comin', Weasy"...)

LugerMan.com · 02-14-2012, 05:17 PM

Well,
I got two options
buy a 20K gun and reverse it myself
or by blue prints for 2.5K and save some time.

If anyone has a cheaper way of selling me blue prints, they can have first dips on the 45 Lugers I will make ;0)

LugerMan.com · 02-14-2012, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Glad you were able to get through to Mike! Hopefully everything will work out for you. I wish you the best of luck.

Man, I would love to have a .45 carbine!...but I am well past the time I could afford such a jewel (retired fixed income and all that

)
Ron

If you start making payments now , you way be 1/2 to the total amount by the time i am done with a first batch of guns.

I am thinking 2-3 years from the moment i get blue prints.

TheRomanhistorian · 02-14-2012, 06:18 PM

Hi Eugene,

Wow, hopefully you can get this going. I don't know if I could ever afford a .45 ACP Luger but I should start saving now.

I imagine there must still be some interest in these!

Ron Wood · 02-14-2012, 06:42 PM

For what it is worth, I think $2.5K is pretty reasonable for a working set of drawings for a .45 Luger. A darned sight better than trying to work one up from scratch, plus the dimensions are spot on for the original DWM gun. If one is serious about producing these guns, it is a sound investment in my opinion.

LugerMan.com · 02-14-2012, 06:45 PM

Good, I got a first taker on the 45 ACP Luger.

I am thinking to get this project going we need 10-15 clients,
that will agree to pre-orders at reduced cost.

And 50% bases down payments with 2 year waiting list,
And we will be in business.

I will be taking orders for army issue , navy 45 ACP or a carbine in 45 ACP.

For such a amount we will have to make legal contracts, signed by both sides ...

Any takers on this ... please let me know.

Let's see where the road will take us.

Thanks.

Ron Wood · 02-14-2012, 07:02 PM

Just as an afterthought, at $2.5K I do not think it would be unreasonable to stipulate exclusive rights to the blueprints/measured drawings. That way you would eliminate competition unless you further licensed the drawings, and if for some reason you could not go into production you could recoup your investment in the drawings if someone else wished to take up the project.
If you really want to attract potential buyers, you need to establish a price point for the three variations. This will require realistic estimation of production costs and realistic production time. Investors need to have some assurance they will be guarenteed a gun as specified in a timely manner. I think a two to three year lead for production is reasonable. To be informed after two years on a waiting list that it will be another two years until delivery would not be a good marketing practice.

alvin · 02-14-2012, 07:35 PM

Why not making some 20-shot conehammers, I bet there is a market for it, as long as the it looks great and the price is right. (or semi-auto version of Astra 902, probably that will be easier).

sheepherder · 02-14-2012, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Why not making some 20-shot conehammers...

Why not Borchardts??? I'll send in a couple grand as down payment on a 2 year production Borchardt...

...And I am serious...

jared427 · 02-14-2012, 08:40 PM

I'm interested, what do you think a ballpark figure would be? Also a matching snail drum would be pretty sweet!

lugerholsterrepair · 02-14-2012, 08:49 PM

As a one man shop I know it is possible to bite off a chunk too large to chew...Usually large projects require more man hours..from what you have explained about your work load.. how will you make this work? Quit your day job?

Most collectors/shooters would be interested in an affordable .45 Luger..IF one could be economically produced there WOULD be a market. Make no mistake about that. Two things would concern me if I were involved..Price point and time to produce. Both would have to be right or you will cause more trouble to your enterprise than you think.

The major problem in producing a .45 Luger is the frame. That will be NO small task even with the best drawings.

Even if you produce a pistol it HAS to work. I have heard rumors that not all of the MK .45's do. I could be wrong and won't know for sure untill Ron goes to the range with his!

jared427 · 02-14-2012, 09:05 PM

I wish I could read German. This sight is pretty interesting www.waffen-werle.de looks like they are trying to mass produce a 45.

Edward Tinker · 02-14-2012, 09:18 PM

I would be leery about sending 1/2 down and a 2 year wait on a possible project.

Make one first and show people it exists.

No offense, but you have negative feedback on this forum and Jan Still's forum for being unresponsive and slow in turn around.

Ed

Patronen · 02-14-2012, 09:37 PM

(Where's my defibrillator..."I'se comin', Weasy"...)

[/QUOTE]

I hope you do realize I laughed for an hour!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stdi-1tIUhM&feature

02-14-2012, 12:58 PM	#1
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 361 Times in 113 Posts	Looking for 1905 45 ACP Luger blueprints Hi, I have been thinking about making a small batch of 45 ACP 1905 Luger reproductions. For the longest time i have been looking for a set of blueprints or a one of the modern copies to make blue prints from. Any one has a source of one or the other ? I know it's a long shot ... but if I do not start looking, i will never be able to for-fill my dream. I am willing to make generous compensation for a complete set of blue prints or a gun to make them from. Also what do you think about a market interest of such item ? Thanks.

02-14-2012, 03:18 PM	#2
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Mike Krause in California has been making exact replicas of the .45 Luger for a number of years. He had access to, and reverse engineered, the .45 Luger formerly in the Aberman collection. I suspect that Mike has made engineering drawings for his production but I doubt he would be willing to share (but I could be wrong!). I purchased his production serial number 7 from him quite a while ago. I don't know how many he produced or if he is still making them __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-14-2012, 03:34 PM	#3
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 361 Times in 113 Posts	1906 45 ACp copy Do you still have the item that you purchased from him ? Can we arrange something that will let me reverse engineer what you have ?

02-14-2012, 04:34 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Eugene, I still have it. I am a bit reluctant to ship around a $15,000 item, and would not do so without Mike's permission. He has proprietary interest in the design. You might contact him directly to get his feelings about sharing. His website is http://www.krausewerk.com/ Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-14-2012, 04:39 PM	#5
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 361 Times in 113 Posts	Talking to Mike Thanks for the tip and for the link. Just got of the phone with Mike. He told me he is at the end of the production of his Luger 45s he is done about 50. He also is willing to sell me blue prints for only 2.5 K. Witch sounds very reasonable to me. I visit San Francisco every 2 years and i may visit his shop, he actually offered some over run parts he may have for the 45. So, may be i will have my dream after all. I was going to make some 45 navy guns as well as carbines. Just need to scope out the market for it ...

02-14-2012, 04:43 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Glad you were able to get through to Mike! Hopefully everything will work out for you. I wish you the best of luck. Man, I would love to have a .45 carbine!...but I am well past the time I could afford such a jewel (retired fixed income and all that ) Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-14-2012, 05:17 PM	#8
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 361 Times in 113 Posts	Try finding a set Well, I got two options buy a 20K gun and reverse it myself or by blue prints for 2.5K and save some time. If anyone has a cheaper way of selling me blue prints, they can have first dips on the 45 Lugers I will make ;0)

02-14-2012, 06:18 PM	#10
TheRomanhistorian User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 301 Thanks: 170 Thanked 88 Times in 64 Posts	Hi Eugene, Wow, hopefully you can get this going. I don't know if I could ever afford a .45 ACP Luger but I should start saving now. I imagine there must still be some interest in these! __________________ Michael Nos morituri te salutant - Supposed saying of the gladiators to the emperor ('We, who are about to die, salute you.') 'We are the lantern bearers, my friend; for us to keep something burning, to carry what light we can forward into the darkness and the wind' - From Rosemary Sutcliff's The Lantern Bearers

02-14-2012, 06:42 PM	#11
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	For what it is worth, I think $2.5K is pretty reasonable for a working set of drawings for a .45 Luger. A darned sight better than trying to work one up from scratch, plus the dimensions are spot on for the original DWM gun. If one is serious about producing these guns, it is a sound investment in my opinion. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-14-2012, 06:45 PM	#12
LugerMan.com User Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 377 Thanks: 91 Thanked 361 Times in 113 Posts	1st taker for 45 ACP Good, I got a first taker on the 45 ACP Luger. I am thinking to get this project going we need 10-15 clients, that will agree to pre-orders at reduced cost. And 50% bases down payments with 2 year waiting list, And we will be in business. I will be taking orders for army issue , navy 45 ACP or a carbine in 45 ACP. For such a amount we will have to make legal contracts, signed by both sides ... Any takers on this ... please let me know. Let's see where the road will take us. Thanks.

02-14-2012, 07:02 PM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,022 Thanks: 1,090 Thanked 5,178 Times in 1,703 Posts	Just as an afterthought, at $2.5K I do not think it would be unreasonable to stipulate exclusive rights to the blueprints/measured drawings. That way you would eliminate competition unless you further licensed the drawings, and if for some reason you could not go into production you could recoup your investment in the drawings if someone else wished to take up the project. If you really want to attract potential buyers, you need to establish a price point for the three variations. This will require realistic estimation of production costs and realistic production time. Investors need to have some assurance they will be guarenteed a gun as specified in a timely manner. I think a two to three year lead for production is reasonable. To be informed after two years on a waiting list that it will be another two years until delivery would not be a good marketing practice. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

02-14-2012, 07:35 PM	#14
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Why not making some 20-shot conehammers, I bet there is a market for it, as long as the it looks great and the price is right. (or semi-auto version of Astra 902, probably that will be easier).

02-14-2012, 08:40 PM	#16
jared427 User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 21 Thanks: 2 Thanked 16 Times in 7 Posts	I'm interested, what do you think a ballpark figure would be? Also a matching snail drum would be pretty sweet!

02-14-2012, 08:49 PM	#17
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,772 Thanks: 4,933 Thanked 3,124 Times in 1,434 Posts	As a one man shop I know it is possible to bite off a chunk too large to chew...Usually large projects require more man hours..from what you have explained about your work load.. how will you make this work? Quit your day job? Most collectors/shooters would be interested in an affordable .45 Luger..IF one could be economically produced there WOULD be a market. Make no mistake about that. Two things would concern me if I were involved..Price point and time to produce. Both would have to be right or you will cause more trouble to your enterprise than you think. The major problem in producing a .45 Luger is the frame. That will be NO small task even with the best drawings. Even if you produce a pistol it HAS to work. I have heard rumors that not all of the MK .45's do. I could be wrong and won't know for sure untill Ron goes to the range with his! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-14-2012, 09:05 PM	#18
jared427 User Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 21 Thanks: 2 Thanked 16 Times in 7 Posts	I wish I could read German. This sight is pretty interesting www.waffen-werle.de looks like they are trying to mass produce a 45.

02-14-2012, 09:18 PM	#19
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	I would be leery about sending 1/2 down and a 2 year wait on a possible project. Make one first and show people it exists. No offense, but you have negative feedback on this forum and Jan Still's forum for being unresponsive and slow in turn around. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-14-2012, 09:37 PM	#20
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	(Where's my defibrillator..."I'se comin', Weasy"...) [/QUOTE] I hope you do realize I laughed for an hour! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stdi-1tIUhM&feature