Need info for Dad :-)

joed9106 · 01-21-2008, 05:21 PM

Hi all. my dad and I were going through his gun collection and we came across a Luger. Now neither one of really knows anything about them, so any help you guys could give would be much appreciated.

On top its says:

42R
R
42
SP
85

On the left side it says 3285

Any info you guys could give us would be great. Thanks!

-Joe

Navy · 01-21-2008, 05:34 PM

Joe,

Could you possibly post a picture? The information you have posted is essentially unintelligible.

Thanks
Tom A

joed9106 · 01-21-2008, 05:47 PM

sorry for the bad camera phone pics

Looking down at the top of the gun right behind the barrel it says 42r

Then on the pull part it says

R
42
SP
85

Then on the left side of the gun it has the number 3285

laoshi75 · 01-21-2008, 06:43 PM

Joe,

you are welcome on this forum.
if you want our experts help you to identify your Luger, I believe that you should
post better photos...don't you have a numeric camera ?

Edward Tinker · 01-21-2008, 06:56 PM

Joe, welcome to the forum.

take the pictures in plenty of light, and not as clsoe, and/or use the macro feature.

Go to this part of the forum and write down what you see. Your letters / numbers don't make sense. My gut feeling is that you have a 1940 and on the toggle 42 luger...

If your digital camera can't take better pictures, then go here:
http://www.lugerforum.com/IDsheets.html

and then fill out the sheets and put the info here...
ed

joed9106 · 01-21-2008, 07:45 PM

Ok here are some better pics. If there is any other angles you guys need let me know. Once again, thanks for the help :-)

Edward Tinker · 01-21-2008, 07:57 PM

Joe, no wonder it made no sense, those aren't "normal" markings at all. In addition, it has been nickled, so value is around $500....

anyone ever seen markings like this?

ed

StarOfTheWest · 01-21-2008, 09:06 PM

Actually, I was thinking it looked like silver spray paint?
It appears only the extractor was spared.

Maybe a movie prop gun?

I have one Luger with 5/43 on the toggle top, but nothing like this one...

Edward Tinker · 01-21-2008, 10:16 PM

you might be right, there is something about it that doesn't seem right...

ed

joed9106 · 01-22-2008, 03:24 AM

I assure you there is no spray paint or anything like that, just the way the pics came out. And its a fully working Luger, not some kind of "prop gun".

StarOfTheWest · 01-22-2008, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley
Are you sure it's not S/43? tac

Very sure, Tac, will try to get some pics up later today.

StarOfTheWest · 01-22-2008, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by joed9106
I assure you there is no spray paint or anything like that, just the way the pics came out. And its a fully working Luger, not some kind of "prop gun".

Sorry, Joe, I was not clear about the "movie gun" theory.
The movie industry will often use real guns, but retrofit them to fire only blanks.
The extractor being untouched made me think of this, along with the very strange markings.
I did not mean to imply that it was a toy gun.
That sure is an interesting one, and thanks for letting us see it.
I do hope I am wrong and it turns out to be some unheard of variation, that would be great!

Ron Wood · 01-22-2008, 12:01 PM

The finish of the nickle looks like the final polish was done with a very fine wire wheel giving it the "satin" appearance. It is indeed an odd piece. Has anyone noticed that the toggle knobs have knurling on the sides but lack the grooves on the edges? The knobs appear to have a full contour, so it doesn't look like the grooves were machined off. It also isn't a '29 Swiss toggle.

Steinar · 01-22-2008, 12:27 PM

A wierd one indeed..

-rear sight has not as wide notch as a it shoud be
-if a 42 mauser, the '42' seem to be oblique angled
-the toggle knobs as Ron mention. The holes also looks big..
-notch on the righ side of receiver near frame
-barrel looks thin for a 9mm
-stamping in general

Any chance you father was good with cast iron?

Steinar · 01-22-2008, 12:34 PM

Tac, it seems we are always lurking here at the same time

Probably mated with some real parts.. a word of advice would be NOT to fire it

Steinar · 01-22-2008, 12:44 PM

Yeah.. we're a person with splitted personality. One would have to wake up early in the morning to fool us!

John Sabato · 01-22-2008, 12:51 PM

In respect of my colleagues' Ron , Steinar and TAC 's comments, Let me offer what I see the following in the photos...IMHO.

The gun is obviously parts of more than one gun as seen by the different last two digits on the sideplate and takedown lever from the serial number on the upper receiver.

The upper receiver (Barrel Extension) has been severly ground and restamped post-manufacture. This is evidenced by the extreme bevels on both sides of the top and the lack of the corner reliefs on the front near the chamber. In addition, I believe that after the rebuild/restamp took place, that the gun received a glass beading or sand blasting to soften the finish and perhaps remove machine marks and rust. The extreme and uneven bevels on the top side edges of the forward toggle link indicates that the toggle was also ground to remove the manufacturing mark, and provide space for the new stamps. I don't think the font or size of the characters stamped are anything close to original manufacturer markings.

The nickle finish is certainly of the matte variety. The missing features on the knobs may be due to a combination of the sandblasting and heavy plating thickness... The missing checkering on the knobs seems to be extra metal plating after heavy blasting. The appearance of the rear sight notch is also indicative of heavy sandblasting.

The stamps are likely the issuing agency's markings... and not likely done by any offical refit facility.

All that said,...While it would be great shooter, the modifications (again IMHO) have left no collector value and this is not some rare variety of Luger...I see no mechanical reason why this gun should be suspect regarding safety of the components... and shooting this gun should be thoroughly enjoyed by the owner, but I am not a lawyer and don't play one on TV... it should be checked by a competent Luger knowledgeable gunsmith... and then if cleared enjoyed to the fullest.

Welcome to the Lugerforum... If you like Lugers, you will find much to learn here...

StarOfTheWest · 01-22-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley
Are you sure it's not S/43?

tac

Sorry, it was 43/5, I had it backwards.
Thread in P08 Military section now with pics.

joed9106 · 01-23-2008, 02:50 AM

Thank you for all the valuable input fellas, you guys really know your stuff!

One comment I wanted to make about the quote below was that I believe the gun not made up of many parts, as I have counted 3285 or 85 on atleast 5 different parts. Also, concerning the finish, there are spots where the finish is still very brilliant, but on the remaining 80% (mostly what you see in the photos), its obvious it has been worn out quite a bit indicating to me it was polished many moons ago. One last thing, the grooves on the knobs are visible, just not in the photos, as they are nearly worn.

Thanks again
Joe

Quote:

Originally posted by John Sabato

The gun is obviously parts of more than one gun as seen by the different last two digits on the sideplate and takedown lever from the serial number on the upper receiver.

RylanBrissette · 01-23-2008, 03:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by joed9106
Thank you for all the valuable input fellas, you guys really know your stuff!

One comment I wanted to make about the quote below was that I believe the gun not made up of many parts, as I have counted 3285 or 85 on atleast 5 different parts. Also, concerning the finish, there are spots where the finish is still very brilliant, but on the remaining 80% (mostly what you see in the photos), its obvious it has been worn out quite a bit indicating to me it was polished many moons ago. One last thing, the grooves on the knobs are visible, just not in the photos, as they are nearly worn.

Thanks again
Joe

Well first I have to say that 5 matching parts isn't really a lot. On a typical ww2 luger the toggle train alone has 5 numbered parts (including the toggle pin), so there is plenty of room for it to be a parts gun. Not to mention the "3285" should be on the barrel, frame and reciever area. The finish although "80%" is a poorly done modern nickle. So you may aswell re-finish it and have a 100% nicely done nickle.

I am no expert with Lugers, but I have to admit this is one of the odd ones. It is a bit of a beast, but is a Luger none the less. I don't know if someone has already mentioned this but the take-down lever looks mis-shapen aswell. You might be able to fix this Luger up into a decent shooter.

All the best,
Rylan

01-21-2008, 05:21 PM	#1
joed9106 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Need info for Dad :-) Hi all. my dad and I were going through his gun collection and we came across a Luger. Now neither one of really knows anything about them, so any help you guys could give would be much appreciated. On top its says: 42R R 42 SP 85 On the left side it says 3285 Any info you guys could give us would be great. Thanks! -Joe

01-21-2008, 06:56 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Joe, welcome to the forum. take the pictures in plenty of light, and not as clsoe, and/or use the macro feature. Go to this part of the forum and write down what you see. Your letters / numbers don't make sense. My gut feeling is that you have a 1940 and on the toggle 42 luger... If your digital camera can't take better pictures, then go here: http://www.lugerforum.com/IDsheets.html and then fill out the sheets and put the info here... ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-21-2008, 07:57 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Joe, no wonder it made no sense, those aren't "normal" markings at all. In addition, it has been nickled, so value is around $500.... anyone ever seen markings like this? ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-21-2008, 09:06 PM	#8
StarOfTheWest User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: East Texas, CSA Posts: 208 Thanks: 81 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts	Actually, I was thinking it looked like silver spray paint? It appears only the extractor was spared. Maybe a movie prop gun? I have one Luger with 5/43 on the toggle top, but nothing like this one... __________________ Sorry, I take that back. I have no problem with the horse you rode in on.

01-21-2008, 10:16 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	you might be right, there is something about it that doesn't seem right... ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-21-2008, 05:34 PM	#2
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Joe, Could you possibly post a picture? The information you have posted is essentially unintelligible. Thanks Tom A

01-21-2008, 05:47 PM	#3
joed9106 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	sorry for the bad camera phone pics Looking down at the top of the gun right behind the barrel it says 42r Then on the pull part it says R 42 SP 85 Then on the left side of the gun it has the number 3285

01-21-2008, 06:43 PM	#4
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 490 Thanks: 288 Thanked 96 Times in 41 Posts	Joe, you are welcome on this forum. if you want our experts help you to identify your Luger, I believe that you should post better photos...don't you have a numeric camera ?

01-21-2008, 07:45 PM	#6
joed9106 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok here are some better pics. If there is any other angles you guys need let me know. Once again, thanks for the help :-)

01-22-2008, 03:24 AM	#10
joed9106 User Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I assure you there is no spray paint or anything like that, just the way the pics came out. And its a fully working Luger, not some kind of "prop gun".

01-22-2008, 12:01 PM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	The finish of the nickle looks like the final polish was done with a very fine wire wheel giving it the "satin" appearance. It is indeed an odd piece. Has anyone noticed that the toggle knobs have knurling on the sides but lack the grooves on the edges? The knobs appear to have a full contour, so it doesn't look like the grooves were machined off. It also isn't a '29 Swiss toggle. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-22-2008, 12:27 PM	#14
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	A wierd one indeed.. -rear sight has not as wide notch as a it shoud be -if a 42 mauser, the '42' seem to be oblique angled -the toggle knobs as Ron mention. The holes also looks big.. -notch on the righ side of receiver near frame -barrel looks thin for a 9mm -stamping in general Any chance you father was good with cast iron? __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

01-22-2008, 12:34 PM	#15
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Tac, it seems we are always lurking here at the same time Probably mated with some real parts.. a word of advice would be NOT to fire it __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

01-22-2008, 12:44 PM	#16
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Yeah.. we're a person with splitted personality. One would have to wake up early in the morning to fool us! __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

01-22-2008, 12:51 PM	#17
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	In respect of my colleagues' Ron , Steinar and TAC 's comments, Let me offer what I see the following in the photos...IMHO. The gun is obviously parts of more than one gun as seen by the different last two digits on the sideplate and takedown lever from the serial number on the upper receiver. The upper receiver (Barrel Extension) has been severly ground and restamped post-manufacture. This is evidenced by the extreme bevels on both sides of the top and the lack of the corner reliefs on the front near the chamber. In addition, I believe that after the rebuild/restamp took place, that the gun received a glass beading or sand blasting to soften the finish and perhaps remove machine marks and rust. The extreme and uneven bevels on the top side edges of the forward toggle link indicates that the toggle was also ground to remove the manufacturing mark, and provide space for the new stamps. I don't think the font or size of the characters stamped are anything close to original manufacturer markings. The nickle finish is certainly of the matte variety. The missing features on the knobs may be due to a combination of the sandblasting and heavy plating thickness... The missing checkering on the knobs seems to be extra metal plating after heavy blasting. The appearance of the rear sight notch is also indicative of heavy sandblasting. The stamps are likely the issuing agency's markings... and not likely done by any offical refit facility. All that said,...While it would be great shooter, the modifications (again IMHO) have left no collector value and this is not some rare variety of Luger...I see no mechanical reason why this gun should be suspect regarding safety of the components... and shooting this gun should be thoroughly enjoyed by the owner, but I am not a lawyer and don't play one on TV... it should be checked by a competent Luger knowledgeable gunsmith... and then if cleared enjoyed to the fullest. Welcome to the Lugerforum... If you like Lugers, you will find much to learn here... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*