Broken Hold open 1918 DWM

RShaw · 09-12-2017, 04:23 PM

Hi All,

Is there any way to bond / weld these two pieces back together? I know this is a "long shot," but I'll take the risk and ask anyway.

Photos below:

Thanks for your time and advice

kurusu · 09-12-2017, 04:35 PM

There must be hundred of ways to put that thing back together. As long as you don't use it to shoot anymore.

Sometimes It makes me laugh (not really I am taking this to the extreme ) about not shooting a collectible for fear of breaking an irreplaceble numbered part. Well if it's not going to be shot ever just superglue the darn thing. No one will know the difference.

RShaw · 09-12-2017, 04:44 PM

Well, it is a reblued, matching parts shooter. Nice gun really.
Bought it from a Lugerforum friend.
I'll look into salvaging that original HO, just to see if it can be done.
But I'll also replace it.....
Thanks

mrerick · 09-12-2017, 04:48 PM

You can shoot the pistol without the hold open. Just leave it out of the gun.

It's a part that requires fitting, and is somewhat precision in manufacture. You would probably get the best results by replacing it and the spring.

The part is hardened. It's interesting to see it snap there...

kurusu · 09-12-2017, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrerick

You can shoot the pistol without the hold open. Just leave it out of the gun.

It's a part that requires fitting, and is somewhat precision in manufacture. You would probably get the best results by replacing it and the spring.

The part is hardened. It's interesting to see it snap there...

That is were they all snap. And I have witnessed personnaly a significant number do just that, generally jamming up the action as it happened to RShaw. Which is just what one needs in the middle of a match

.

Never happened to me, because as I said in the other thread I remove it prior to shooting.

RShaw · 09-12-2017, 05:05 PM

Always new things to learn....
Thanks....

4 Scale · 09-14-2017, 09:13 AM

From my hearsay knowledge of micro welding, I would say the real question is cost. A tungsten inert gas ("TIG")micro welding expert can weld very small parts. There are also other methods. You'd then need to have a skilled person shape the part and re-fit it to the pistol. Both require expertise and equipment.

I asked Charles Danner about TIG welding once, and he said that while he didn't do it he had a resource. Charles is an expert rust-bluer of firearms, I don't have his contact data with me as I write this but you could find him by searching the forums. My exprience in getting one-off things repaired via skilled welding is that the hard part is finding someone. Intricate welding is almost an art form and artists can be "challenging" to deal with. That said, a well-executed weld repair is IMO a thing of beauty itself.

RShaw · 09-14-2017, 09:26 AM

VERY interesting!!
Thanks!!
Cost is probably pretty steep, and for a shooter?
Mmmm......
In any case the option is there. I'll look into it anyway. Might be surprised!
"Nothing ventured, nothing gained?"

4 Scale · 09-14-2017, 09:54 AM

I mentioned cost in my first sentence for a reason. One-off work from real craftsman is either free (a friend or friend-of-friend) or fantastically expensive, in my experience.

This thread has made me pause and evaluate. I have two all-matching, re-blued "shooters". My problem is, I find myself viewing them as collectibles because of the matching. If a numbered part ever breaks I will likely do exactly what you are doing. I'm thinking maybe I need non-matching shooters...

RShaw · 09-14-2017, 11:08 AM

Hi 4 Scale,
Well, I'm happy you see my point! My shooter is all matching like yours, except now for the broken HO. The gun has obviously been refinished- (therefore regarded as a shooter by any "serious" collector)- a very nice refinishing job BTW. I'm keeping that broken part in any case.

As you must know, matching parts = better functioning, in general, but there are many non matching shooters out there which function very well.

Looking at it another way, you can obtain a nonmatching shooter very easily! Just shoot yours until a numbered part breaks and replace it with (of course) a non matching part.

I have fussed enough about this, yes it's annoying, but otherwise one never shoots these special firearms. No I'm not going to shoot an original finish, matching collector. Forget that! But my shooter now hasn't lost THAT much value, and I bought it to shoot!!

I know exactly how you feel

sheepherder · 09-14-2017, 11:36 AM

No matter how well the weld, it is still going to need 'fitting'. Milling preferably, filing probably. It will never be original; it will always be 'repaired'.

Best to just get an un-numbered holdopen and keep mum about it.

RShaw · 09-14-2017, 12:17 PM

Well, I think I should replace the hold open. But I won't shoot with it. Don't want to break it AGAIN. I imagine these parts would be subject to breaking more than other parts, because of the strain placed at the right angle bend each time it performs it's job after the last round.

A question here- if the gun is sold without a holdopen- purely as a shooter of course, how much would the value be diminished? Just your best "guestimate"

What do you think?

sheepherder · 09-14-2017, 01:11 PM

Numrich lists -

Hold Open Latch Assembly Product #: 465260
Part Key: 26

$55.90

But that's a guess-what-you-get...

Edward Tinker · 09-14-2017, 01:13 PM

I would ask, why doesn't it have a hold open?

As a shooter, its the replacement cost I would deduct.

And why wouldn't you pop in a replacement one - if you are going to shoot it?

kurusu · 09-14-2017, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RShaw

Well, I think I should replace the hold open. But I won't shoot with it. Don't want to break it AGAIN. I imagine these parts would be subject to breaking more than other parts, because of the strain placed at the right angle bend each time it performs it's job after the last round.

A question here- if the gun is sold without a holdopen- purely as a shooter of course, how much would the value be diminished? Just your best "guestimate"

What do you think?

Ah! It could be more expensive.

But only if it never had one in the first place.

The first P08s didn't have them. But the Army Board reconsidered and ordered them to be added. The pistols were to be sent to Erfurt Arsenal for the job. But in the summer of 1914 as war seemed eminent those that were in Erfurt but not yet modified were asked back. And those that were scheduled for modification after "war were declared"

never went to Erfurt. But, there are much less Lugers without holdopen than the other type.

RShaw · 09-14-2017, 05:38 PM

"Why wouldn't you pop in a replacement one, if you're going to shoot it?"
Because I don't want to break it again.

I shot again today and I can get used to doing without I think.
Ah well.... these things happen. I'm ordering another one anyway.
Think I'll put it in and shoot with it perhaps... but maybe not so often.
Thanks for all the replies and input

Spanner · 09-14-2017, 09:02 PM

The gunsmith that repaired my P08 bought a new unnumbered Swiss hold open. It did need fitting and a few adjustments before he had it to his liking. Works flawless.

Puretexan · 09-14-2017, 09:49 PM

I think there is only a small portion of the worlds population that can tell you everything
you should know about a Luger. I saw one at a gun show...perfect reblue and the guy
wanted $2500 for it. I told him the toggle didn't match. He said so? I asked if it would
shoot...He said probably. I asked if he would take less....he said no. I watched a while
and a moron bought it for $2500 and he knew less than I do. They sell in any condition
if your not at a luger collectors convention. Whether they shoot or not they look cool.

RShaw · 09-14-2017, 10:49 PM

Wow! That's painful. That is the unique appeal of these particular firearms which others just don't quite have in same way, hard to describe. A Colt SAA comes close, but that "allure" is still different.

Puretexan · 09-15-2017, 09:36 AM

I know I will get flack from this , but I don't see any advantage to numbering every
part on a luger. Well I guess having one that survived time and still has them all together. I bet the gun would shoot just as well without all that. Break a part on a Colt SAA and they stick another in it and move on.

09-12-2017, 04:23 PM	#1
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Broken Hold open 1918 DWM Hi All, Is there any way to bond / weld these two pieces back together? I know this is a "long shot," but I'll take the risk and ask anyway. Photos below: Thanks for your time and advice Attached Thumbnails __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

09-12-2017, 04:48 PM	#4
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,372 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	You can shoot the pistol without the hold open. Just leave it out of the gun. It's a part that requires fitting, and is somewhat precision in manufacture. You would probably get the best results by replacing it and the spring. The part is hardened. It's interesting to see it snap there... __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-14-2017, 09:26 AM	#8
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	VERY interesting!! Thanks!! Cost is probably pretty steep, and for a shooter? Mmmm...... In any case the option is there. I'll look into it anyway. Might be surprised! "Nothing ventured, nothing gained?" Last edited by RShaw; 09-14-2017 at 10:58 AM.

09-14-2017, 11:08 AM	#10
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Hi 4 Scale, Well, I'm happy you see my point! My shooter is all matching like yours, except now for the broken HO. The gun has obviously been refinished- (therefore regarded as a shooter by any "serious" collector)- a very nice refinishing job BTW. I'm keeping that broken part in any case. As you must know, matching parts = better functioning, in general, but there are many non matching shooters out there which function very well. Looking at it another way, you can obtain a nonmatching shooter very easily! Just shoot yours until a numbered part breaks and replace it with (of course) a non matching part. I have fussed enough about this, yes it's annoying, but otherwise one never shoots these special firearms. No I'm not going to shoot an original finish, matching collector. Forget that! But my shooter now hasn't lost THAT much value, and I bought it to shoot!! I know exactly how you feel __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

09-14-2017, 11:36 AM	#11
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	No matter how well the weld, it is still going to need 'fitting'. Milling preferably, filing probably. It will never be original; it will always be 'repaired'. Best to just get an un-numbered holdopen and keep mum about it. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

09-12-2017, 04:35 PM	#2
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 929 Times in 509 Posts	There must be hundred of ways to put that thing back together. As long as you don't use it to shoot anymore. Sometimes It makes me laugh (not really I am taking this to the extreme ) about not shooting a collectible for fear of breaking an irreplaceble numbered part. Well if it's not going to be shot ever just superglue the darn thing. No one will know the difference.

09-12-2017, 04:44 PM	#3
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Well, it is a reblued, matching parts shooter. Nice gun really. Bought it from a Lugerforum friend. I'll look into salvaging that original HO, just to see if it can be done. But I'll also replace it..... Thanks

09-12-2017, 05:05 PM	#6
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Always new things to learn.... Thanks....

09-14-2017, 09:13 AM	#7
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	From my hearsay knowledge of micro welding, I would say the real question is cost. A tungsten inert gas ("TIG")micro welding expert can weld very small parts. There are also other methods. You'd then need to have a skilled person shape the part and re-fit it to the pistol. Both require expertise and equipment. I asked Charles Danner about TIG welding once, and he said that while he didn't do it he had a resource. Charles is an expert rust-bluer of firearms, I don't have his contact data with me as I write this but you could find him by searching the forums. My exprience in getting one-off things repaired via skilled welding is that the hard part is finding someone. Intricate welding is almost an art form and artists can be "challenging" to deal with. That said, a well-executed weld repair is IMO a thing of beauty itself.

09-14-2017, 09:54 AM	#9
4 Scale User Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 544 Thanks: 194 Thanked 489 Times in 251 Posts	I mentioned cost in my first sentence for a reason. One-off work from real craftsman is either free (a friend or friend-of-friend) or fantastically expensive, in my experience. This thread has made me pause and evaluate. I have two all-matching, re-blued "shooters". My problem is, I find myself viewing them as collectibles because of the matching. If a numbered part ever breaks I will likely do exactly what you are doing. I'm thinking maybe I need non-matching shooters...

09-14-2017, 12:17 PM	#12
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Well, I think I should replace the hold open. But I won't shoot with it. Don't want to break it AGAIN. I imagine these parts would be subject to breaking more than other parts, because of the strain placed at the right angle bend each time it performs it's job after the last round. A question here- if the gun is sold without a holdopen- purely as a shooter of course, how much would the value be diminished? Just your best "guestimate" What do you think?

09-14-2017, 01:11 PM	#13
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,182 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,440 Times in 2,328 Posts	Numrich lists - Hold Open Latch Assembly Product #: 465260 Part Key: 26 $55.90 But that's a guess-what-you-get... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

09-14-2017, 01:13 PM	#14
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	I would ask, why doesn't it have a hold open? As a shooter, its the replacement cost I would deduct. And why wouldn't you pop in a replacement one - if you are going to shoot it?

09-14-2017, 05:38 PM	#16
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	"Why wouldn't you pop in a replacement one, if you're going to shoot it?" Because I don't want to break it again. I shot again today and I can get used to doing without I think. Ah well.... these things happen. I'm ordering another one anyway. Think I'll put it in and shoot with it perhaps... but maybe not so often. Thanks for all the replies and input __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

09-14-2017, 09:02 PM	#17
Spanner User Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 65 Thanks: 29 Thanked 58 Times in 21 Posts	The gunsmith that repaired my P08 bought a new unnumbered Swiss hold open. It did need fitting and a few adjustments before he had it to his liking. Works flawless.

09-14-2017, 09:49 PM	#18
Puretexan User Join Date: May 2017 Location: Pearland Texas Posts: 176 Thanks: 11 Thanked 70 Times in 36 Posts	I think there is only a small portion of the worlds population that can tell you everything you should know about a Luger. I saw one at a gun show...perfect reblue and the guy wanted $2500 for it. I told him the toggle didn't match. He said so? I asked if it would shoot...He said probably. I asked if he would take less....he said no. I watched a while and a moron bought it for $2500 and he knew less than I do. They sell in any condition if your not at a luger collectors convention. Whether they shoot or not they look cool.

09-14-2017, 10:49 PM	#19
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Wow! That's painful. That is the unique appeal of these particular firearms which others just don't quite have in same way, hard to describe. A Colt SAA comes close, but that "allure" is still different.

09-15-2017, 09:36 AM	#20
Puretexan User Join Date: May 2017 Location: Pearland Texas Posts: 176 Thanks: 11 Thanked 70 Times in 36 Posts	I know I will get flack from this , but I don't see any advantage to numbering every part on a luger. Well I guess having one that survived time and still has them all together. I bet the gun would shoot just as well without all that. Break a part on a Colt SAA and they stick another in it and move on.