Russian Reworks

Strider · 10-03-2003, 09:48 AM

I was wondering if all Russian reworks have a stamping on them indicating that they have been redone. If I remember correctly, the stamp used was that of crossed rifles. Please correct me if I am wrong about the type of stamp. My question is was there any specific place this stamp was to be placed? Or could this stamping appear anywhere? The reason for this question is I have found what appears to be crossed rifles stamped on the frame which is hidden by the side plate when full assembled. My Luger is a 1940 code 42. This location is what has me wondering about where the rework stamps were placed. Thanks for you help in answering this for me. I am sorry I do not have a digital camera to provide pictures. Thanks again everyone.
Sid.

Edward Tinker · 10-03-2003, 10:04 AM

Sid, the "crossed rifles" is a controversial one also, because it is just a crude X, not the crossed rifles like on the pre-WW2 rifles you see, or the actual Russian pistols.

And from what I understand, many Russian pistols do not have this "X".

Ed

Strider · 10-03-2003, 12:19 PM

Thanks for the reply Ed. The few examples that I have seen usually had this on top near the chamber date. This one struck me as strange since it was covered by the side plate. Which to me is preferable since you can not see it until you take it apart. What got me to thinking it was crossed rifles is that the legs are a bit thicker than the arms. I will see if the folks here at work will lend me one of their digital cameras and get some pictures of the X and the suffix letter. Thanks again.
Sid.

Thor · 10-03-2003, 12:41 PM

Strider come by some time and I will take some close up pictures for you! Anyway, you need to come see the "K Date".

Luke · 10-03-2003, 03:58 PM

Strider,

I bought a 1937 Mauser WW-II Russian rework a couple of years ago, and it did NOT have the "crossed rifles" or crude X over the chamber or anywhere else. It did have a couple of small parts with two digit serial numbers which, obviously, were mismatched and had been completely obliterated. Interesting that they mangled the number rather than simply grinding it off. Probably obliterating was easier.

Also, it had been crudely dip blued and was a dull black all over, small parts included.

Luke

Navy · 10-03-2003, 04:13 PM

All,
Using the term "re-work" to describe what was done to these pistols is illustrative of one of the problems in our hobby, that being casual use of very imprecise terminology.
The term "rework" has connotations ranging from complete factory overhaul, which the Rooskie captures most certainly did not get, to, well, the Rooskie treatment.
I suspect the term has its origins in the golden years of collecting in the 1950s-60s, where, IIRC, I often saw it being applied inlieu of "refinished" "reblued" or "Mismatched/Force matched".
Although I am not trying to assume the role of Mr. Language Policeman, I think we should agree amongst us here on this forum to a common definition for the term.

I would propose the following:
Those maintenance and/or repair actions taken by the original manufacturer or a Government sponsored arsenal or maintenance activity to bring the piece to as close as possible to the production baselines of form, fit, function and finish.

Comments/alternative ideas?

Tom A.
Wastin' Away in Huntsgaritaville

Aaron · 10-03-2003, 04:38 PM

"Rework" is a general term which is correctly used to describe a Luger pistol which has undergone any process or alteration which changes any facet of its "as manufactured" condition. The term can be further refined in the interest of preciseness among collectors to include all of, but not limited to, the following terms:
Factory rework
Police rework
Post war rework
Russian rework
Restoration
and on and on.

10-03-2003, 09:48 AM	#1
Strider User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 256 Thanks: 26 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Russian Reworks I was wondering if all Russian reworks have a stamping on them indicating that they have been redone. If I remember correctly, the stamp used was that of crossed rifles. Please correct me if I am wrong about the type of stamp. My question is was there any specific place this stamp was to be placed? Or could this stamping appear anywhere? The reason for this question is I have found what appears to be crossed rifles stamped on the frame which is hidden by the side plate when full assembled. My Luger is a 1940 code 42. This location is what has me wondering about where the rework stamps were placed. Thanks for you help in answering this for me. I am sorry I do not have a digital camera to provide pictures. Thanks again everyone. Sid. __________________ Sid. Patience is a bitter plant, but it has sweet fruit. ~German Proverb If it is made before 1930 ..........It is a prototype.

10-03-2003, 10:04 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Sid, the "crossed rifles" is a controversial one also, because it is just a crude X, not the crossed rifles like on the pre-WW2 rifles you see, or the actual Russian pistols. And from what I understand, many Russian pistols do not have this "X". Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-03-2003, 12:19 PM	#3
Strider User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 256 Thanks: 26 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the reply Ed. The few examples that I have seen usually had this on top near the chamber date. This one struck me as strange since it was covered by the side plate. Which to me is preferable since you can not see it until you take it apart. What got me to thinking it was crossed rifles is that the legs are a bit thicker than the arms. I will see if the folks here at work will lend me one of their digital cameras and get some pictures of the X and the suffix letter. Thanks again. Sid. __________________ Sid. Patience is a bitter plant, but it has sweet fruit. ~German Proverb If it is made before 1930 ..........It is a prototype.

10-03-2003, 12:41 PM	#4
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Strider come by some time and I will take some close up pictures for you! Anyway, you need to come see the "K Date". __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-03-2003, 03:58 PM	#5
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Strider, I bought a 1937 Mauser WW-II Russian rework a couple of years ago, and it did NOT have the "crossed rifles" or crude X over the chamber or anywhere else. It did have a couple of small parts with two digit serial numbers which, obviously, were mismatched and had been completely obliterated. Interesting that they mangled the number rather than simply grinding it off. Probably obliterating was easier. Also, it had been crudely dip blued and was a dull black all over, small parts included. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

10-03-2003, 04:13 PM	#6
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	All, Using the term "re-work" to describe what was done to these pistols is illustrative of one of the problems in our hobby, that being casual use of very imprecise terminology. The term "rework" has connotations ranging from complete factory overhaul, which the Rooskie captures most certainly did not get, to, well, the Rooskie treatment. I suspect the term has its origins in the golden years of collecting in the 1950s-60s, where, IIRC, I often saw it being applied inlieu of "refinished" "reblued" or "Mismatched/Force matched". Although I am not trying to assume the role of Mr. Language Policeman, I think we should agree amongst us here on this forum to a common definition for the term. I would propose the following: Those maintenance and/or repair actions taken by the original manufacturer or a Government sponsored arsenal or maintenance activity to bring the piece to as close as possible to the production baselines of form, fit, function and finish. Comments/alternative ideas? Tom A. Wastin' Away in Huntsgaritaville

10-03-2003, 04:38 PM	#7
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	"Rework" is a general term which is correctly used to describe a Luger pistol which has undergone any process or alteration which changes any facet of its "as manufactured" condition. The term can be further refined in the interest of preciseness among collectors to include all of, but not limited to, the following terms: Factory rework Police rework Post war rework Russian rework Restoration and on and on.