1900 American Eagle #7398

[milesc2]

Picked up a 1900 American Eagle yesterday, all matching including the mag and grips.

Unmarked FP and hold open with no Germany stamp, only the “flaming bomb” proofs.

Takedown lever is numbered on the left flat side.
Everything that should be "in the white" is correct.
Original finish with a decent bore, only drawback is the “million dollar” chip in the left grip.
Barrel looks shiny in the 4th photo but is just covered in oil.
The mag in photo 1 is not the original.

Serial number 7398 (not yet on Ron’s list)
I know it’s not a test gun but cool to have one with the same features.

I have a couple of questions:

I paid 1600 for it, how do you think I did? All I know is the seller took a loss on it.

To get the grip chip repaired will the frame need to be in the hands of the repair person?

Also does anyone know the year of manufacture? I am guessing it somewhere around 1901 or 02.

[HerrKaiser]

Thats absolutely stunning. You got an absolute steal at 1800 for that Luger too. Standard catalog of Luger (2016 edition) estimates that price to be anywhere between 3500-5500 depending on condition and if its a commercial or military model. Yours looks to be a military model based off proof marks and serial number. It even has the dished toggles and original leaf spring design instead of a coil spring from 1906 onwards. My friend you just earned a top notch collection centerpiece at an absolute bargain! Would you be willing to give it to me for $2000? (sarcasm of course, its worth much more than that and more than I cant afford to pay, enjoy this one)

[DonVoigt]

Great catch and a nice pistol.

No, you can get the grip chip repaired without sending the frame. When you get it back the round cut for the safety lever may need a little touch up with a round needle file to gain proper clearance- so it won't crack again.

[Lugerdoc]

Miles, Nice. The lack of the GERMANY marking on a 1900 AE may indicate that it was imported as a replacement of one of the original 6100 to 7100 serial US TEST contract. The "flaming bomb" on the bottom of it's chamber and magazine, is just a DWM inspector's marking and not unique to the test lugers. TH

[Ron Wood]

That is a super gun for the money! You did really well.
Ron
P.S. I'll get the number on the list.

[milesc2]

Tom,

That was my understanding of the "flaming bomb" proof as well.
I have never read anything about replacement of the original test Lugers (was this during trials?).
Can you point me to any books that discuss this replacement process?
Really wanting to better my understanding of the test trials now that I own a close serial number example.

I know the chance this pistol was used in the test trials is slim to none but it's neat to think it may possibly have been. Unfortunately to the best of my knowledge anything after 7200 or so is not likely to have been used in the trials.

Thanks!

[milesc2]

Thanks for the reassurance in my purchase everyone!
Is there any way to tell what year this thing was made for certain?

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

Great catch and a nice pistol.

No, you can get the grip chip repaired without sending the frame. When you get it back the round cut for the safety lever may need a little touch up with a round needle file to gain proper clearance- so it won't crack again.

I totally agree. But make sure that there's a whisker of clearance between the side of the round cut and the aft portion if the lever's shaft. Here's why:

Although the common advice to avoid the million dollar chip is to take great care while removing or installing the panel, I also advise a bit of space there to avoid any contact in that area whatsoever. My hypothesis is that as the grip panels, with use and age, become ever so slightly loose as the ribs on the back sides of the panels which index and stabilize its position are pounded and compressed during shooting, and can also shrink a bit when extra-dry. If they are loose enough in this way, eventually the area of the chip will come into contact and share the brunt of the shock.

Another data point concerning this occurred just the other day when I shot about 2 mags' worth of ammo through my 1900 Commercial. I had removed its original matching grips and installed a pair I got from a guy in Argentina, which appeared to fit solidly, and like a glove. When I came back inside, the chip was gone. In this case, removal of the grip wasn't involved at all. Although the grip mounted solidly, I think that there was a touching or near-touching situation around the area in question, and perhaps a bit of looseness that wasn't detectable--but enough to do the deed.

If an installed grip panel makes a "click" when rapped with a knuckle, instead of a solid "thunk" sound, it is loose somewhere and needs attention. Solid-sounding or not, I think a bit of relief in the area, just to make sure, is still in order.

[DavidJayUden]

"My hypothesis is that as the grip panels, with use and age, become ever so slightly loose as the ribs on the back sides of the panels which index and stabilize its position are pounded and compressed during shooting, and can also shrink a bit when extra-dry. If they are loose enough in this way, eventually the area of the chip will come into contact and share the brunt of the shock."

That actually occurred to me about 2 weeks ago. Came home from the range and the chip was loose, but still in place, so I glued it right back on.

dju

[Edward Tinker]

It has been surmised that an extra 1000 guns were brought to the USA in case any replacements needed to be swapped out by the test folks. I think that Tauscher brought in a number, possibly more than a thousand so he could get them in tax free, but that is just a feeling.

Standard Catalog of Lugers - Aarons book is fine, but there are many mistakes in it - I would say a Test Luger falls within or above those values, but would not say that the average 1900 in very nice shape would go for that, not unless a high end dealer.

---
Note, holy smokes, you took it completely apart! - I know, lots of folks do that, but I never do unless there is a major issue, but I'm a scrub the barrel, clean the firing pin off type of guy

----

when made - about what you guessed, dates are hard to judge...

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[milesc2]

I will keep the grip fitment information in mind for my other Lugers.
I don't think I will be shooting this one.

It was so dirty I had to do the detail strip. Came apart really easy, even the extractor came right out.

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

That actually occurred to me about 2 weeks ago. Came home from the range and the chip was loose, but still in place, so I glued it right back on.

dju

That's good, Dave! Mine is out on the lawn or gravel driveway somewhere Don't forget to shave out around the hole a little before shooting again!

It's actually the second time it has happened. The other chip befell my O6 AE shooter on its first session shooting after I got the grip back from Hugh Clarke. That one, like yours, stayed put in the frame and received the re-glue job.

[Lugerdoc]

Mikes, The symbol on the bottom of the receiver and mag of your m1900 luger is technically not a "flaming bomb", but actually the astrological symbol for Taurus, which was use by a DWM inspector of most all M1900 lugers. The book "United States Martial & Collector's Arms" state on page 44 "There us no definite markings employed by the US GOVERNMENT which will positively identify these pistol. Any stamped letters, numbers or ORDNANCE TYPE FLAMING BOMBS found on the frame or receiver cannot be attributed to any US government agency. If a m1900 American Eagle, second issue pistol suspected of being a trial specimen it will have the following characeristics: 1.Serial number range of 5800 to 7800. 2.The word Germany will NOT appear on the pistol." Since the normal failure rate for most pistols of this period was at least 10%, i believe at at least 100 of the 1000 original contact pistols were returned to DWM (Hans Taucher?) for replacement for other lugers from the normal AE commerical serial range. For the more detail on the M1900 Us trial lugers, I highly recommend the book "1900 Luger, US test trials " by Michael Reese II. Tom (the Lugerdoc).

[milesc2]

Thanks for the information Tom!
I actually just won a copy of that book on eBay last night.
Looking forward to reading it.

[Ron Wood]

I agree in part with Tom’s (Lugerdoc) comments, but not completely. The “flaming bomb” marking is distinct from a “Taurus” zodiac symbol…I would have to search for images of examples of each, but that is beside the point. The mark is not a U.S. ordnance mark so should not be given any association with U.S. marking, it is pure and simple, a DWM inspector’s mark.

The book "1900 Luger, US test trials " by Michael Reese II, as posted by Tom is a seminal work with respect to the U.S. Test Trial Lugers. It documents what was known at the time of its publication, and is indeed a super reference. However, there have been follow-on observations of these unique Lugers associated with their procurement for the U.S. Test Trials. I have attempted to add on to Reese’s research, the results of which were published as “Appendix A” in Jan Still’s “Central Powers Pistols”.

From observed serial numbers, there were approximately 2000 American Eagle Lugers produced in the 59xx-79xx range without a GERMANY export stamp. Of these, only 1000 were procured by the US Army for field testing. That leaves 1000 that were imported without the requisite export stamp. It remains a mystery of how this extra 1000 made it through US customs. Most likely it was a clever maneuver by Hans Tauscher to pre-position guns for further testing and/or a follow-on purchase contract. There is no recorded evidence that any of these additional 1000 guns were actually used to replace damaged/defective Test Trial guns. In fact, the predominant evidence indicates that some of the original 1000 purchased pieces were cannibalized by the Army to maintain a workable, functioning inventory. The same thing applies to the 780 Test Trial Lugers declared as surplus by the Army and purchased by Francis Bannerman in 1910. Bannerman likewise assembled workable pieces from the acquired lot to produce complete guns for sale.

There were 50 of the original 1000 contract pieces returned to DWM in trade for 50 “Cartridge Counter” guns in 9mm. The 50 Test Eagles traded in for Cartridge Counters were shipped by the Army directly to A.H. Funke, a New York dealer, by Hans Tauscher's explicit instruction. There is no record of any other of the Test guns being returned to DWM or Hans Tauscher for replacement.

[milesc2]

Thanks for the added information Ron!

I guess I should have made it more clear in my original post that I understand the proof is a DWM one and not a US applied mark.

"Flaming Bomb" is the only name I have seen given to it in my (very limited) reading.

For the sake of clarity is there another term that better describes this proof stamp?

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by milesc2

Thanks for the added information Ron!

I guess I should have made it more clear in my original post that I understand the proof is a DWM one and not a US applied mark.

"Flaming Bomb" is the only name I have seen given to it in my (very limited) reading.

For the sake of clarity is there another term that better describes this proof stamp?

Most do call it the "flaming bomb"; in quotes is good- another collector invention that while inaccurate is ingrained. JMHO.

[Lugerdoc]

I wish that I could draw it here, but the Taurian symbol is a circle with a open top half circle on top. TH

[John Sabato]

Here is an artists conception of the stamp sometimes found on Lugers and other German firearms that is often mistaken for the U.S. Ordnance Flaming Bomb stamp.



This is an image of an actual US Ordnance "Flaming Bomb" stamp.



Images are courtesy of the late Luger collector, Viggo G. Dereng, a long-time member of this forum, and dear friend to not only me, but many here.

This information is found in the Lugerforum Technical Information which is linked from our homepage: www.lugerforum.com

This is for the benefit of some of the new members who may not realize we even have a "homepage" as they only know about the discussion pages.

[DonVoigt]

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