Luger ID .30 cal or 9mm

Josafoot · 03-30-2017, 02:31 AM

Hello
First luger and all.

From the original owners information: 1916 DWM 9MM P08 luger.

When I was trying snap caps at the store, they would not chamber properly. The action would mostly close; however, there is a 1/8" gap where the action meets the barrel. The arm had almost fully depressed but was not quite there. I did not get a picture of the misfeed.

I am concerned that this is not a 9mm luger. I compared the markings as best I could to the given year and it is possible that it could be either a 9mm or .30 cal.

There is a picture of what the arm looked like when the misfeed happened. It does that once in a while when working the action with no magazine.

Chickenthief · 03-30-2017, 05:37 AM

And the one pic that could determine it is missing ;-)
The muzzle!

Take the dummy and see if the front part of it will fit the muzzle.
If it is indeed 7,65/.30 only the tip will enter, if it is 9mm most/all of the front part will enter.
The 9mm has a stepped chamber and the dummy might be binding in that part so it looks like it is a 7,65/.30 chamber.

That or use a dial caliber. The difference between .308 and .355 is obvious.

DonVoigt · 03-30-2017, 05:44 AM

I do not see a 1916 DWM P 08 picture, but a non-dated luger with a commercial proof.

Given your experience with the snap cap, it is likely .30 cal.

I have no Idea where you are from your profile, so I hesitate to say the normal test is to see if a "standard" wooden pencel will enter the bore! But that is a clue.

Of course you could shine a light into the chamber and see if you see the shoulder of the .30 luger chamber or simply a broken shell left in the chamber, or some other problem.

Bill_in_VA · 03-30-2017, 06:43 AM

I'm with Don. I don't see a chamber date but I do see a c/N, both indicative of an alphabet Luger. If that's the case, the gun is most likely a .30 cal. (Unless it has been rebarreled. Does the serial number on the barrel match that of the frame?)

Josafoot · 03-30-2017, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chickenthief

And the one pic that could determine it is missing ;-)
The muzzle!

Take the dummy and see if the front part of it will fit the muzzle.
If it is indeed 7,65/.30 only the tip will enter, if it is 9mm most/all of the front part will enter.
The 9mm has a stepped chamber and the dummy might be binding in that part so it looks like it is a 7,65/.30 chamber.

That or use a dial caliber. The difference between .308 and .355 is obvious.

I can get a picture of the Muzzle.

I tried putting a .303 British Dummy round in the front and it stopped at the bottom of the round towards the bottom of the casing. (I don't have a dummy 9mm).

I assume that the dial caliper would be the best way to do this and will check tonight.

The chamber does have a large step in it which perplexed the store owner (not the original owner, just my FFL). I was under the impression that the .30 cals did not have a step because the round has a bottleneck. Maybe it is the other way around?

DavidJayUden · 03-30-2017, 01:17 PM

Other way round. The .30 Luger cartridge is a bottleneck round, which necessitates a "step" in the chamber to correctly fit the case.
dju

Josafoot · 03-30-2017, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Other way round. The .30 Luger cartridge is a bottleneck round, which necessitates a "step" in the chamber to correctly fit the case.
dju

As I typed that response, the engineer in me realized that it made no sense

So... I did all of my research based on the 9mm. Is there anything about the .30 cal I should know?

I am still holding out that it is a 9mm as the .30 cal ammo seems hard to locate.

rhuff · 03-30-2017, 01:43 PM

If this Luger is an alphabet(commercial) Luger, as it appears, it will most likely be in 7.65P/30 Luger caliber, unless it has has a bbl. change. Can you give us a photo of the underside of the bbl. near the bbl. extension where the serial numbers are located?? That will help a lot.

DonVoigt · 03-30-2017, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josafoot

As I typed that response, the engineer in me realized that it made no sense

So... I did all of my research based on the 9mm. Is there anything about the .30 cal I should know?

I am still holding out that it is a 9mm as the .30 cal ammo seems hard to locate.

You are correct that the .30 luger is harder to find, and more expensive.

Add to that only a couple companies load it now and Fiocchi does not function in all pistols. Privi is the other brand- and less expensive.

Do a site search on .30 luger ammo for more discussion.

Josafoot · 03-30-2017, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhuff

If this Luger is an alphabet(commercial) Luger, as it appears, it will most likely be in 7.65P/30 Luger caliber, unless it has has a bbl. change. Can you give us a photo of the underside of the bbl. near the bbl. extension where the serial numbers are located?? That will help a lot.

I can't get a picture as the guns is at home and I am in the office. Here is the picture from the seller.

rhuff · 03-30-2017, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josafoot

I can't get a picture as the guns is at home and I am in the office. Here is the picture from the seller.

Thank you for the photo, but it does not offer me the info that is needed to see if the bbl. is original, and serial #, a 9mm bbl. with the bore dimensions stamped on the bbl., or a replacement bbl.

It appears that this Luger has commercial parts, and also some military parts, making it a "mixed" Luger. Better photos would help a lot. See the FAQ sections on what to photograph for accurate identification of your Luger.

As noted above, a measurement of the muzzle will tell you what caliber it is.

Josafoot · 03-30-2017, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhuff

Thank you for the photo, but it does not offer me the info that is needed to see if the bbl. is original, and serial #, a 9mm bbl. with the bore dimensions stamped on the bbl., or a replacement bbl.

It appears that this Luger has commercial parts, and also some military parts, making it a "mixed" Luger. Better photos would help a lot. See the FAQ sections on what to photograph for accurate identification of your Luger.

As noted above, a measurement of the muzzle will tell you what caliber it is.

Sorry about those horrible pictures. I will take some better ones. I did not realize my muzzle pics did not upload. Apparently they are too large.

Major Tom · 03-30-2017, 05:59 PM

Fiocchi FMJ ammo works flawlessly in my commercial 30 luger caliber. 50 rounds will cosy you about $30 delivered tho.

Josafoot · 03-30-2017, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Major Tom

Fiocchi FMJ ammo works flawlessly in my commercial 30 luger caliber. 50 rounds will cosy you about $30 delivered tho.

I have read some very good things about the .30 cal's performance. Apparently they are more like makarov's in performance (faster and less recoil) than the 9mm.

I guess I am kind of upset because I also just picked up a 9mm C96 and was excited that 9mm would serve multiple pistols.

When purchasing or looking for .30 luger, what do I search for? I have seen .30 cal luger referred to as: .30 Luger, .32, .32 acp (inccorrect?), 7.65.

Thanks

ithacaartist · 03-30-2017, 06:12 PM

Either .30 Luger or 7.65 Parabellum. None of the others is an accurate name for this ammo.

We used to recommend the "pencil test" for caliber. A standard pencil will plunk right down to the bolt face when dropped into a 9 mm barrel. In a .30 Luger barrel, it will be snug or a no-go.

Josafoot · 03-30-2017, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ithacaartist

Either .30 Luger or 7.65 Parabellum. None of the others is an accurate name for this ammo.

We used to recommend the "pencil test" for caliber. A standard pencil will plunk right down to the bolt face when dropped into a 9 mm barrel. In a .30 Luger barrel, it will be snug or a no-go.

I tried a Pencil and it was tight but I could push it through. Not a plunk.

I also tried a .303 British round and that went most of the way but got stuck where the bullet is at its widest. To be fair, I was not going to push it any further.

Josafoot · 03-30-2017, 08:15 PM

Pics of caliper and muzzle (round is a dummy .303)

I am not sure I id the caliper correctly. I rotated it around the barrel holding the wheel to open the jaws more. It reads nearly precisely 7.62 (7.619)

Is this correct?

Josafoot · 03-30-2017, 08:24 PM

One more picture of the stamp. Flash brings out the dirt and rust. Any recommendations for cleaning up lugers without ruining their value?

Josafoot · 03-30-2017, 08:25 PM

Pic

Bill_in_VA · 03-30-2017, 09:27 PM

Alphabet Luger, .30 cal.

03-30-2017, 02:31 AM	#1
Josafoot User Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 37 Thanks: 5 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Luger ID .30 cal or 9mm Hello First luger and all. From the original owners information: 1916 DWM 9MM P08 luger. When I was trying snap caps at the store, they would not chamber properly. The action would mostly close; however, there is a 1/8" gap where the action meets the barrel. The arm had almost fully depressed but was not quite there. I did not get a picture of the misfeed. I am concerned that this is not a 9mm luger. I compared the markings as best I could to the given year and it is possible that it could be either a 9mm or .30 cal. There is a picture of what the arm looked like when the misfeed happened. It does that once in a while when working the action with no magazine. Attached Thumbnails

03-30-2017, 05:44 AM	#3
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	I do not see a 1916 DWM P 08 picture, but a non-dated luger with a commercial proof. Given your experience with the snap cap, it is likely .30 cal. I have no Idea where you are from your profile, so I hesitate to say the normal test is to see if a "standard" wooden pencel will enter the bore! But that is a clue. Of course you could shine a light into the chamber and see if you see the shoulder of the .30 luger chamber or simply a broken shell left in the chamber, or some other problem. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-30-2017, 06:43 AM	#4
Bill_in_VA User Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Southwest Virginia Posts: 343 Thanks: 731 Thanked 470 Times in 178 Posts	I'm with Don. I don't see a chamber date but I do see a c/N, both indicative of an alphabet Luger. If that's the case, the gun is most likely a .30 cal. (Unless it has been rebarreled. Does the serial number on the barrel match that of the frame?) __________________ John 8:32 reive (riːv) vb (Military) (intr) dialect Scot and Northern English to go on a plundering raid [variant of reave] ˈreiver n e.g., " Some view the Border Reivers as loveable rogues."

03-30-2017, 05:59 PM	#13
Major Tom User Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: S.E. Iowa Posts: 481 Thanks: 531 Thanked 226 Times in 123 Posts	Fiocchi FMJ ammo works flawlessly in my commercial 30 luger caliber. 50 rounds will cosy you about $30 delivered tho. __________________ I Build Custom Pistol Boxes

03-30-2017, 06:12 PM	#15
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,283 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	Either .30 Luger or 7.65 Parabellum. None of the others is an accurate name for this ammo. We used to recommend the "pencil test" for caliber. A standard pencil will plunk right down to the bolt face when dropped into a 9 mm barrel. In a .30 Luger barrel, it will be snug or a no-go. __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

03-30-2017, 05:37 AM	#2
Chickenthief User Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Denmark Posts: 135 Thanks: 0 Thanked 131 Times in 48 Posts	And the one pic that could determine it is missing ;-) The muzzle! Take the dummy and see if the front part of it will fit the muzzle. If it is indeed 7,65/.30 only the tip will enter, if it is 9mm most/all of the front part will enter. The 9mm has a stepped chamber and the dummy might be binding in that part so it looks like it is a 7,65/.30 chamber. That or use a dial caliber. The difference between .308 and .355 is obvious.

03-30-2017, 01:17 PM	#6
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Other way round. The .30 Luger cartridge is a bottleneck round, which necessitates a "step" in the chamber to correctly fit the case. dju

03-30-2017, 01:43 PM	#8
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,270 Thanks: 2,686 Thanked 958 Times in 704 Posts	If this Luger is an alphabet(commercial) Luger, as it appears, it will most likely be in 7.65P/30 Luger caliber, unless it has has a bbl. change. Can you give us a photo of the underside of the bbl. near the bbl. extension where the serial numbers are located?? That will help a lot.

03-30-2017, 08:15 PM	#17
Josafoot User Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 37 Thanks: 5 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Pics of caliper and muzzle (round is a dummy .303) I am not sure I id the caliper correctly. I rotated it around the barrel holding the wheel to open the jaws more. It reads nearly precisely 7.62 (7.619) Is this correct? Attached Thumbnails

03-30-2017, 08:24 PM	#18
Josafoot User Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 37 Thanks: 5 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	One more picture of the stamp. Flash brings out the dirt and rust. Any recommendations for cleaning up lugers without ruining their value?

03-30-2017, 08:25 PM	#19
Josafoot User Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 37 Thanks: 5 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Pic Attached Thumbnails

03-30-2017, 09:27 PM	#20
Bill_in_VA User Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: Southwest Virginia Posts: 343 Thanks: 731 Thanked 470 Times in 178 Posts	Alphabet Luger, .30 cal. __________________ John 8:32 reive (riːv) vb (Military) (intr) dialect Scot and Northern English to go on a plundering raid [variant of reave] ˈreiver n e.g., " Some view the Border Reivers as loveable rogues."