My 1900 American Eagle Test

[cirelaw]

One thing Ill point out, no luger ive seen has a nicer wooden grip, Mine looks exactly the same and mine is real

[cirelaw]

I would like to point out that my hero Edward, publised photographs of my test luger and beautiful closeups of a legitimate, U.S. Test Holster,under the luger accessories section, that have been published in Marios' Italian Artillerie, site, If someone be so kind to add an insert for his Bella Site.

[cirelaw]

Tom, You so sternly state, "these idispositions of the guns are well documented,!!!! If so where?,is the disposion of each gun documented? Are you forgetting the Bannerman showpieces,What ever Maybe In Rons' Reseach, we know how many pieces were slated for which camp and outpost, The conditions of these pieces we never recorded, Im sure, as you are a Navy man, some, the good ones disappeared into History, some surfacing, others not, Some were bought as we do, for personal colllectios, My piece came from Ralph Shattucks' personal collection, and is identical in every was to our new members Both appear mint with some very slight wear at the toggle. Yes a great majority show wear and long time usage, a perfect example is our member who rides south of the border on his site. He displays aq test luger and holster, whose condition is probobly the same that eventually surfaced, lost or destroyed And then, on the other spectrum,Thered are lugers that almost appear mint,Im sure a number existed in excellant condition, like those fit for sale through Bannerman and Sons,are now, it appears finally surfacing,I was last weekoffered, for the entire rig, Luger and Holster twelve thousand dollars, which by the way, i respetivly turned down, May I respectically remind you, This is a hobby to some, a compulsion, to others, Eric J. Bruning, BA, JD and Doctorite of Law, Villanove School of Law, 1981, not that, that matters

[Imperial Arms]

After reading Eric's post hereunder, I decided to contact Eric to ask him which person(s) he was making reference because I got the sense that he pointed the finger at me when he wrote "my dear critic, south of the boarders...". To confirm my feeling that the reference was directed to me, Eric replied to me by e-mail with the following line "ps TRUTH IS A DEFENCE TO SLANDER...".

Originally posted by cirelaw
iNSTEAD of guessing, can someone succintly, and consisly, point at what exactle the feel is wrong, Im sure most of you have never held in there hand a test luger, that was used as salesman samples,Theres no doubt that the luger, i purchased from Ralph is one of those pieces, Yes, there is some wear in parts involving the toggle, I cant see how one can judge a luger he never held. What worse by far is the unproffessional treatment, a FEW of YOU, have acted, The same people who swore my aberchrombie and fincl leather case was a repo, even after I sent it to a noted leather repair house, that does all the southerbies, I have a receipt, in which nowherre is mention mine is a repo, and after our own expert determined my US test holster legit along with my test luger, my dear critic, south of the borders continue on belittle anything he doest own My hats off to those upon whose opinion, one can rely, Ed, Ron, Dwight, etc, You are the true historians

I do not take very lightly such personal accusations when Eric states "What worse by far is the unprofessional treatment, a FEW of YOU, have acted...", and I would like share my side of the story with the readers of this forum in order to defend myself against such a fool.

Those collectors who know me are aware of the fact that my reputation is impeccable, and I have also given my honest and correct advice to fellow collectors when they ask me for my opinion. Furthermore, my expertise and knowledge which has been weaved from the two main 'collector continents' of the world (the US and Europe) - as well as having the privilege to examine the RAREST German semi-automatic pistols of the world - allows me to make opinions or theories which are logical and based on strong facts. There is always a margin of error with an opinion, but some collectors can make more errors than others.

When Eric purchased an A&F carbine case from a dealer for approximately $3,000 and posted images of the case on this forum, some collectors (including myself) questioned the originality/authenticity of his A&F case. In view of the fact that I own the exact A&F case depicted in the book LR by Charles Kenyon which is a 200% genuine A&F case, I believe that I was in the position to give Eric a correct opinion of his case. In fact, I called him and had a chat with him giving him very specific details about different types of Luger carbine cases and scabbards. He admitted to me that his case could be questionable, instead he preferred 'to curve off the road' and make excuses that his case is correct. However, at the end of the day, the most important factor to him is his happiness. He has a valid point regarding his happiness and satisfaction, and of course, I agreed with him - why should I criticize/question his method of happiness as long as it is not my money? I advised him that $3k for a very suspicious case is an expensive investment, and not all dealers can be trusted.

It is unfortunate that Eric had a brain stroke which has most likely affected his mind, and some people have decided to take advantage of him by selling him incorrect merchandise, whether or not he was told beforehand that the item(s) was a reproduction or a restoration. Obviously, Eric has faith in a few shady individuals who are greasing their own pockets at the expense of his 'happiness'! It is sad, but it is true. There is nothing wrong with fantasizing or believing that ones items are original, but exposing them on a forum and claiming that they are genuine/legit can eventually lead to disputes and possible confrontations.

To set the record straight, the A&F case which Eric owns is without a doubt a reproduction. I am sorry to say that it is quite a s**** case of below average standards, and he threw money in the air. Under the high quality standards of the A&F retail store during the early 1904-12 period, his A&F case would have never been permitted to leave through the main entrance doors of this very famous sporting store. If this so-called 'noted leather repair house', who does leather good appraisals for Sotheby's, provided him a receipt/letter stating that his A&F carbine case is original/genuine/legit, Eric should post an image/scan of this receipt on the forum. I would be thrilled to prove them wrong! It should not be difficult for Eric to take a couple of extra images considering the number of images he has posted of this Luger carbine, and US Test Luger with an questionable holster.

I agree with Eric (and other collectors) that an accurate opinion cannot be made on a pistol without examining it in the hand. Based on the images which Eric has sent to me as well as posted on this forum, his US Test Luger is to good to be true for a trail pistol, and there are a few details on the pistol which leads me to believe that it has been restored. Furthermore, if we were to assume that his US Test Luger is genuine, it would probably be rated as the finest US Test Luger known to exist, or at least in the top three. It would be impossible to believe that Ralph would sell him a genuine US Test Luger in super condition for only $6k - something is not right! Genoursity, charity or hand-outs do not even go that far for a pistol that would easily be worth $13-$15k in that outstanding condition! With reference to the line in the quote above "...continue on belittle anything he doest own..., I would refuse this US Test Luger if he wanted to offer it to me, because it is not worthy of my standards.

I notice that some collectors on this forum ignore Eric's comments because they understand his mental condition, but I shall say that I have pity on him. With time and experience, he will learn his mistakes, and I do not appreciate the accusations or slander he made against me.

Good luck (Eric),
Albert

[Imperial Arms]

In addition to my post above, I would like to take this opportunity to give Eric some 'education' regarding his US Test Luger. As much as he tries to boost about his Luger being 'legit' and coming from the personal collection of Ralph, he will have to settle with the opinions that it is unfortunately a very good restoration. To the best of my knowledge, there is no GENUINE US Test Luger known to exist in 98%+ original condition with no wear or fading on the grip straps; hardly no existence of patina; minute wear on the high edges of the sideplate; and the grip screws showing no wear or discoloration of the fire blue as if the pistol has never been held or fired. If such a fabulous US Test Luger exists, it surely would not be in the hands of an amateur collector who has suffered a brain stroke and who bought such a Luger in the past year. Furthermore, if this Luger was to given the benefit of the doubt regarding its authenticity, Ralph would have not sold it for a bargain price of $6,000, even if he was doing Eric a favour! If Ralph sold this US Test Luger from his personal collection as Eric claims, the actual US Test Luger in Ralph's collection must be stone mint! Apparently, Eric is trying to make excuses on this Forum to justify that his US Test Luger is genuine, but sadly he is urinating against the wind. If he was offered $12k for his Luger and holster, he should have dumped it in a heart beat.

His US Test holster is also questionable, and there are a few signs on it which make it suspicious. He should learn that if he decides to spend $3k for a US Test holster (which is expensive for a piece of leather), it should be 100% genuine and the holster should talk for itself with no mouth behind it. If a few experts cannot give it a clear 'thumbs-up' based on their gut-feeling, it is probably wrong.

We all know that the truth can sometimes hurt while some collectors become victims of unscrupulous individuals.

Albert

[erndog105]

My My, I never thought nor intended that MY re-blue luger would go for 3 pages. All I wanted to do was show the gun and the appraisal analysis so everyone could learn a little. Maybe we can take this educational tutorial off line for a while.

[Edward Tinker]

agreed, this is starting to sound like "teach Eric a lesson" thread...

I have actually almost closed it several times, as I felt it was unfair that "your" topic had been hi-jacked...

this topic is closed