1918 Erfurt value question

thegundude · 08-03-2005, 11:56 AM

I've found a nice Erfurt, perportedly in about 94% original blue and straw, for sale and was wondering about what it's value might be. I don't have any pictures to show, but it's all matching (except mag, of course) and it looks pretty good. Most of the Erfurts I've been seeing lately have been kinda ratty lookin'... (not that there's anything wrong with that) :-P

He's asking for $1,200. I'll try to talk him down but I doubt he'll go any lower. Is that a fair price?

Thanks,

thegundude · 08-03-2005, 01:44 PM

Well, nevermind. I was able to talk him down to $1,100 bucks. It's on it's way... :-)

It's coming from Collectors Firearms in Texas. I've bought several Colt PPs and one other Luger from him before and have always been happy, so it ought to be nice.

Here's the link... It's not quite as clean as the description, but it looks pretty good. What do you all think?

1918 Erfurt

Pete Ebbink · 08-03-2005, 03:57 PM

Steve,

Nice buy...it looks like she needs a good cleaning to show her off at her best.

Now you need to spend the next couple of years finding a pair of Erfurt-proofed screws...those boogers are really hard to find away from a pistol.

I had to buy another doggy Erfurt just to secure a pair of screws...which went on the luger I kept and sold off the doggy one...and only lost $ 40 on the affair...quite a round-about way of getting 2 small screws...

thegundude · 08-03-2005, 05:12 PM

Wow Pete! That's an awful lot of gyrations just to get a couple of screws... :-O

Thanks for the positive feedback. I'm looking forward to getting her and cleaning her up.... :-) I hope I can get her up to par....

policeluger · 08-03-2005, 05:31 PM

thegundude....I will cut down your searck time in half....I have one Erfurt proofed grip screw.....PM me if interested.....thanks

SteveM · 08-03-2005, 07:32 PM

I thought the proofing of screws had ceased by 1918.

SteveM

thegundude · 08-04-2005, 01:20 PM

Where are the screws proofed? On the outside or inside? What does an Erfurt proof look like?

policeluger · 08-04-2005, 01:55 PM

Small crown proof on outside, on one half of screw head.

thegundude · 08-04-2005, 02:04 PM

Thanks PL.

It makes me wonder what happened to the original grip screws. It's (theoretically) an all-matching gun but wouldn't that include the screws (assuming they're marked)?

BTW, I just got your PM. I'll be in contact as soon as the gun comes in.

Tomathvl · 08-04-2005, 03:02 PM

Anyone have the answer to SteveM's question regarding the proofing of Erfurt grip screws. I had the same opinion.
Tom

thegundude · 08-04-2005, 03:04 PM

Steve, Tom... I wish I knew....

Edward Tinker · 08-04-2005, 03:36 PM

I almost answered, but I am unsure and have no books to check. My gut feeling was that grips were proofed less in 1918, was not thinking it was gone completely. Not having erfurt proofs wouldn't make me think it wasn't matching.... Awful easy to pick up one or two on e-bay.

And this is Ed, not an expert saying this, but my feeling is that some items are liable to be replaced over time, grips, grip screws and firing pins. I want it compeltely matching, but those three items don't cause me to consider it a shooter...

Ed

thegundude · 08-04-2005, 03:41 PM

Thanks Ed. That's what I was thinking too....

Dwight Gruber · 08-04-2005, 06:14 PM

Here are photos of the marked grip screws from a 1911 Erfurt.

Grip screw markings stopped being applied in 1917. Grips themselves continued to have inspector stamps throughout the gun's production.

--Dwight

policeluger · 08-04-2005, 08:13 PM

I feel that when we talk of all matching Erfurts, or any other Luger manufacture, we are talking serial numbers, and not proof marks, and as far as it goes, grip screws are not "proofed"...proofing is testing firing.

thegundude · 08-04-2005, 08:27 PM

Man, I learn something new everytime you guys post.

Thanks

Dwight Gruber · 08-05-2005, 04:15 AM

Howard,

When I post I try to make a clear differentiation between Inspector Stamps and Power Proofs; I didn't manage to make that perfectly clear here.

I agree with you about "matching" being a serial# concern. This is different from something like Erfurt grip screw inspector marks, which are "proper" on an Erfurt 1911-1916 (and maybe a bit into 1917). If I was looking to buy an Erfurt Luger from those years I would expect a price differentiation depending if the marks were present or absent.

--Dwight

thegundude · 08-05-2005, 07:46 AM

So you wouldn't expect to find them on an 1918 Erfurt though. Hmmm.... maybe I ought to rethink the "proofed" grip screws then. No sense in getting them if they're not supposed to be there.

policeluger · 08-05-2005, 09:07 AM

Dwight, you are correct, and I should try and tighten up my termenolgy....thanks

08-03-2005, 11:56 AM	#1
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	1918 Erfurt value question I've found a nice Erfurt, perportedly in about 94% original blue and straw, for sale and was wondering about what it's value might be. I don't have any pictures to show, but it's all matching (except mag, of course) and it looks pretty good. Most of the Erfurts I've been seeing lately have been kinda ratty lookin'... (not that there's anything wrong with that) :-P He's asking for $1,200. I'll try to talk him down but I doubt he'll go any lower. Is that a fair price? Thanks, __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

08-03-2005, 01:44 PM	#2
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Well, nevermind. I was able to talk him down to $1,100 bucks. It's on it's way... :-) It's coming from Collectors Firearms in Texas. I've bought several Colt PPs and one other Luger from him before and have always been happy, so it ought to be nice. Here's the link... It's not quite as clean as the description, but it looks pretty good. What do you all think? 1918 Erfurt __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

08-03-2005, 05:12 PM	#4
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Wow Pete! That's an awful lot of gyrations just to get a couple of screws... :-O Thanks for the positive feedback. I'm looking forward to getting her and cleaning her up.... :-) I hope I can get her up to par.... __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

08-04-2005, 01:20 PM	#7
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Where are the screws proofed? On the outside or inside? What does an Erfurt proof look like? __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

08-04-2005, 02:04 PM	#9
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks PL. It makes me wonder what happened to the original grip screws. It's (theoretically) an all-matching gun but wouldn't that include the screws (assuming they're marked)? BTW, I just got your PM. I'll be in contact as soon as the gun comes in. __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

08-03-2005, 03:57 PM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Steve, Nice buy...it looks like she needs a good cleaning to show her off at her best. Now you need to spend the next couple of years finding a pair of Erfurt-proofed screws...those boogers are really hard to find away from a pistol. I had to buy another doggy Erfurt just to secure a pair of screws...which went on the luger I kept and sold off the doggy one...and only lost $ 40 on the affair...quite a round-about way of getting 2 small screws...

08-03-2005, 05:31 PM	#5
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	thegundude....I will cut down your searck time in half....I have one Erfurt proofed grip screw.....PM me if interested.....thanks

08-03-2005, 07:32 PM	#6
SteveM User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 1,016 Thanks: 94 Thanked 275 Times in 137 Posts	I thought the proofing of screws had ceased by 1918. SteveM

08-04-2005, 01:55 PM	#8
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Small crown proof on outside, on one half of screw head.

08-04-2005, 03:02 PM	#10
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	Anyone have the answer to SteveM's question regarding the proofing of Erfurt grip screws. I had the same opinion. Tom

08-04-2005, 03:04 PM	#11
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Steve, Tom... I wish I knew.... __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

08-04-2005, 03:36 PM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	I almost answered, but I am unsure and have no books to check. My gut feeling was that grips were proofed less in 1918, was not thinking it was gone completely. Not having erfurt proofs wouldn't make me think it wasn't matching.... Awful easy to pick up one or two on e-bay. And this is Ed, not an expert saying this, but my feeling is that some items are liable to be replaced over time, grips, grip screws and firing pins. I want it compeltely matching, but those three items don't cause me to consider it a shooter... Ed

08-04-2005, 03:41 PM	#13
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Thanks Ed. That's what I was thinking too.... __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

08-04-2005, 06:14 PM	#14
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Here are photos of the marked grip screws from a 1911 Erfurt. Grip screw markings stopped being applied in 1917. Grips themselves continued to have inspector stamps throughout the gun's production. --Dwight

08-04-2005, 08:13 PM	#15
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I feel that when we talk of all matching Erfurts, or any other Luger manufacture, we are talking serial numbers, and not proof marks, and as far as it goes, grip screws are not "proofed"...proofing is testing firing.

08-04-2005, 08:27 PM	#16
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	Man, I learn something new everytime you guys post. Thanks __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

08-05-2005, 04:15 AM	#17
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Howard, When I post I try to make a clear differentiation between Inspector Stamps and Power Proofs; I didn't manage to make that perfectly clear here. I agree with you about "matching" being a serial# concern. This is different from something like Erfurt grip screw inspector marks, which are "proper" on an Erfurt 1911-1916 (and maybe a bit into 1917). If I was looking to buy an Erfurt Luger from those years I would expect a price differentiation depending if the marks were present or absent. --Dwight

08-05-2005, 07:46 AM	#18
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	So you wouldn't expect to find them on an 1918 Erfurt though. Hmmm.... maybe I ought to rethink the "proofed" grip screws then. No sense in getting them if they're not supposed to be there. __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

08-05-2005, 09:07 AM	#19
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Dwight, you are correct, and I should try and tighten up my termenolgy....thanks