shoots low

stefarms · 02-23-2008, 05:31 PM

My new 9mm Interarms Luger shoots six or seven inches low at 25 yards using Winchester USA 115gr, and that's shooting a center hold on the target. It's shoots about the same place for my dad, so it's not just me. This is disappointing. I have 6 cases of this ammuntion and don't want to shoot reloads through this gun. The test target shows a decent group right at the aiming point. What sort of ammunition would the factory have been using in the seventies to sight these guns? Were they using 124gr bullets? Or is European 9mm just a lot hotter than the Winchester?

Sieger · 02-23-2008, 09:51 PM

Hi:

Don't laugh, but are you holding the pistol upside down when you are shooting it? Ha!

That said, Lugers usually shoot high at 25 yards! I have several Interarms Lugers from the 70s and they all shoot high. The best one can hope for is a 6 o'clock hold with a bullseye hit at 25 yards.

Yes, the Lugers were designed to shoot 124 grain bullets, but at this range, you shouldn't be able to note any "real" difference.

As to your question, try this... buy yourself some Remington 124 gr and some S&B 124 gr. Try these. If they work, you at least know where to go from here.

One final note, never buy a lot of ammo before you try it in the actual firearm you will be shooting. This, sometimes, leads to surprises!

Sieger

stefarms · 02-23-2008, 10:00 PM

Actually I've been stockpiling it for a while. Every time the local sporting goods store had a sale, I run down and buy another case. I just never shot it. I wasn't worried about shooting reloads through my SIG.

Ron Smith · 02-24-2008, 07:23 PM

Hi Stefanie,

If it's going to remain a shooter. You can.. slowly..a little bit..at a time, use a fine cut mill file and file the top of the front sight down and it will bring the point of aim up. File a tiny bit and shoot, file a tiny bit and shoot, until it hits where you aim. The trick is tiny amounts at a time and try to keep the top of the sight squared and level as you take it down with the file.

I'm sure I'll take some flak from the purists, but if it's going to be shot on a regular basis, what the hey!!?

stefarms · 02-24-2008, 11:57 PM

I had all my files taken away from me after being found guilty of habitual firearms abuse. I think I'd better figure out how much I have to hold the front sight over the rear and then paint it to mark the height.

Also, I've seen on several websites that the new 124gr Winchester is NATO spec and about as hot as +P. What is considered a safe pressure limit for a Luger?

John Sabato · 02-25-2008, 06:32 AM

+P is too hot for regular consumption in a Luger... I wouldn't use it.

get yourselft a spare front sight blade (from Lugerdoc or Hugh or ebay) and then slowly grind it down (staying flat on top) until you are hitting point of aim. Once you have the right height, then try to match the curve on the front of the sight blade to make it look more original.

Frank · 02-25-2008, 07:31 AM

Hey John, you are about the only one on this thread to remember... I had a 1917 DWM that was in pretty bad shape and had it refinished by Thor, who named it the Ugly Duckling (before) and the Swan (after) the restoration. Well that one shot low.

I bought a rear toggle piece (from I don't remember), then filed a square notch in the sight. Then I bought a Mauser 98K front sight from Tom (Lugerdoc), installed it and fired. It was way low. Then I did as Ron suggested and started the old file and test on the front sight. After a period of time, it came right into target center.

Of course the front sight looks like a rifle sight and not a Luger sight, from the profile. No matter, it shoots great!

Good Luck!

lugerholsterrepair · 02-25-2008, 11:20 AM

One other way to go about it..Take out the front site and put a real Luger on it.
Of course Ron & Frank have very good ideas too!
Jerry Burney

John Sabato · 02-25-2008, 11:31 AM

A p-38 front sight will also fit and already has a rectangular profile to use with a square notch rear...

stefarms · 02-25-2008, 01:22 PM

I wonder if the notched sight that you see on Interarms 30 calibers would work. They look to be shorter, and would complement with the Swiss grip. Tom, is that something you have?

Ron Smith · 02-26-2008, 10:11 AM

Stefanie,

Yet another solution to the problem. Don't know why I didn't think of this sooner. Getting old and my mind just doesn't grasp the obvious anymore. The direct and logical response to your original title "Shoots Low", would be ... Aim High!!

Problem solved ...

stefarms · 02-26-2008, 11:05 AM

Or maybe, shoot from the hip... Sights? I don't need no stinking sights.

Ron Smith · 02-26-2008, 11:29 AM

"Sights? I don't need no stinking sights."

My thoughts exactly....

I've got some Braille targets on order. I'm hoping they'll get here while I can still find the mail box.

davidkachel · 02-26-2008, 09:06 PM

Old farts like me have to paint their sights with fishing lure paint in order to see them at all. (It comes off with a fingernail later.) Just paint the front sight only as high as you need and let the rest rest over the top of the rear sight. No filing, no damage, no muss, no fuss.
Besides, if your eyes are as bad as mine, you can't hit anything anyway, so what are you worried about?!

Vlim · 02-27-2008, 03:48 AM

Shooting low can also be the result of the '1911 syndrome'

The luger shooting stance differs from the modern shooting stance quite a lot. Try adopting a 'loose' one-handed shooting style with a slightly bent elbow.

Every time I use the 1911 or Glock position with my P08, I shoot way too low as well.

stefarms · 02-28-2008, 01:47 AM

Maybe I am stiff-arming the gun too much when I'm shooting at paper targets. I usually shoot off-hand when plinking. Speaking of plinking, the best plinking targets are also the cheapest. I cut cardboard into 4" or 5" squares and paint them orange for contrast. Even a near miss will throw them in the air. Unlike clay pigeons they can be shot at repeatedly. And unlike tin cans, they don't roll down off the bank the first time they're hit.

02-23-2008, 05:31 PM	#1
stefarms User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	shoots low My new 9mm Interarms Luger shoots six or seven inches low at 25 yards using Winchester USA 115gr, and that's shooting a center hold on the target. It's shoots about the same place for my dad, so it's not just me. This is disappointing. I have 6 cases of this ammuntion and don't want to shoot reloads through this gun. The test target shows a decent group right at the aiming point. What sort of ammunition would the factory have been using in the seventies to sight these guns? Were they using 124gr bullets? Or is European 9mm just a lot hotter than the Winchester?

02-24-2008, 07:23 PM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hi Stefanie, If it's going to remain a shooter. You can.. slowly..a little bit..at a time, use a fine cut mill file and file the top of the front sight down and it will bring the point of aim up. File a tiny bit and shoot, file a tiny bit and shoot, until it hits where you aim. The trick is tiny amounts at a time and try to keep the top of the sight squared and level as you take it down with the file. I'm sure I'll take some flak from the purists, but if it's going to be shot on a regular basis, what the hey!!? __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

02-25-2008, 06:32 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	+P is too hot for regular consumption in a Luger... I wouldn't use it. get yourselft a spare front sight blade (from Lugerdoc or Hugh or ebay) and then slowly grind it down (staying flat on top) until you are hitting point of aim. Once you have the right height, then try to match the curve on the front of the sight blade to make it look more original. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-25-2008, 11:20 AM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,761 Thanks: 4,852 Thanked 3,101 Times in 1,427 Posts	One other way to go about it..Take out the front site and put a real Luger on it. Of course Ron & Frank have very good ideas too! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-25-2008, 11:31 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	A p-38 front sight will also fit and already has a rectangular profile to use with a square notch rear... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-23-2008, 09:51 PM	#2
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Hi: Don't laugh, but are you holding the pistol upside down when you are shooting it? Ha! That said, Lugers usually shoot high at 25 yards! I have several Interarms Lugers from the 70s and they all shoot high. The best one can hope for is a 6 o'clock hold with a bullseye hit at 25 yards. Yes, the Lugers were designed to shoot 124 grain bullets, but at this range, you shouldn't be able to note any "real" difference. As to your question, try this... buy yourself some Remington 124 gr and some S&B 124 gr. Try these. If they work, you at least know where to go from here. One final note, never buy a lot of ammo before you try it in the actual firearm you will be shooting. This, sometimes, leads to surprises! Sieger

02-23-2008, 10:00 PM	#3
stefarms User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Actually I've been stockpiling it for a while. Every time the local sporting goods store had a sale, I run down and buy another case. I just never shot it. I wasn't worried about shooting reloads through my SIG.

02-24-2008, 11:57 PM	#5
stefarms User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I had all my files taken away from me after being found guilty of habitual firearms abuse. I think I'd better figure out how much I have to hold the front sight over the rear and then paint it to mark the height. Also, I've seen on several websites that the new 124gr Winchester is NATO spec and about as hot as +P. What is considered a safe pressure limit for a Luger?

02-25-2008, 07:31 AM	#7
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hey John, you are about the only one on this thread to remember... I had a 1917 DWM that was in pretty bad shape and had it refinished by Thor, who named it the Ugly Duckling (before) and the Swan (after) the restoration. Well that one shot low. I bought a rear toggle piece (from I don't remember), then filed a square notch in the sight. Then I bought a Mauser 98K front sight from Tom (Lugerdoc), installed it and fired. It was way low. Then I did as Ron suggested and started the old file and test on the front sight. After a period of time, it came right into target center. Of course the front sight looks like a rifle sight and not a Luger sight, from the profile. No matter, it shoots great! Good Luck!

02-25-2008, 01:22 PM	#10
stefarms User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I wonder if the notched sight that you see on Interarms 30 calibers would work. They look to be shorter, and would complement with the Swiss grip. Tom, is that something you have?

02-26-2008, 10:11 AM	#11
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Stefanie, Yet another solution to the problem. Don't know why I didn't think of this sooner. Getting old and my mind just doesn't grasp the obvious anymore. The direct and logical response to your original title "Shoots Low", would be ... Aim High!! Problem solved ... __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

02-26-2008, 11:05 AM	#12
stefarms User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Or maybe, shoot from the hip... Sights? I don't need no stinking sights.

02-26-2008, 11:29 AM	#13
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	"Sights? I don't need no stinking sights." My thoughts exactly.... I've got some Braille targets on order. I'm hoping they'll get here while I can still find the mail box. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

02-26-2008, 09:06 PM	#14
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Old farts like me have to paint their sights with fishing lure paint in order to see them at all. (It comes off with a fingernail later.) Just paint the front sight only as high as you need and let the rest rest over the top of the rear sight. No filing, no damage, no muss, no fuss. Besides, if your eyes are as bad as mine, you can't hit anything anyway, so what are you worried about?! __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.

02-27-2008, 03:48 AM	#15
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Shooting low can also be the result of the '1911 syndrome' The luger shooting stance differs from the modern shooting stance quite a lot. Try adopting a 'loose' one-handed shooting style with a slightly bent elbow. Every time I use the 1911 or Glock position with my P08, I shoot way too low as well.

02-28-2008, 01:47 AM	#16
stefarms User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 30 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Maybe I am stiff-arming the gun too much when I'm shooting at paper targets. I usually shoot off-hand when plinking. Speaking of plinking, the best plinking targets are also the cheapest. I cut cardboard into 4" or 5" squares and paint them orange for contrast. Even a near miss will throw them in the air. Unlike clay pigeons they can be shot at repeatedly. And unlike tin cans, they don't roll down off the bank the first time they're hit.