Hot Ammo?

zeke1312 · 11-18-2007, 12:50 PM

OK, I know I've read a post on the subject but please refresh my memory. What ammo is recommended for the 9MM? Is Wally Worlds Winchester 115 gr a good start? What is safe ammo? If the gun does not cycle is going to a hot load the typical solution? How hot is too hot? Is a +P or +P+ or some other and does it depend on the decade/manufacturer, etc? I guess it comes down to what is considered good ammo without being in danger of blowing your self up?

Vlim · 11-18-2007, 01:14 PM

Hi,

The luger was designed around the 9mm luger round, so in theory it shouldn't have trouble with 9mm luger rounds that follow the same specifications as the originals.

The +p and +p+ are mainly designed to go off at any given time, developing a velocity that maximizes impact. The performance of the round was deemed more important than the damage it did/does to the gun it is fired from. So not a good choice for a 70 - 100 year old pistol.

The luger also hates rounds with an OAL that is rather short. The maximum SAAMI length for a 9mm round is the minimum length of the old world 9mm luger round. Hollow points usually don't feed very well either.

Winchester WalMart 115grain is a good luger round. OAL is decent, shape is classic and load is up to the specs.

In the old world we tend to use Sellier & Bellot 124 grain, as it's available, relatively cheap and up to the luger's preferred OAL standards.

Modern powders seem to have a pressure curve that differs from the old smokeless powders used in the first half of the last century. This also makes it a bit more difficult to find a good alternative load.

In my opinion, hotter loads are never the solution to cycling problems. The solution is to check what part of the package is causing problems, if any, and correct it. A normal 9mm luger should function with WWW 115gr., if it doesn't, something is wrong.

drewas · 12-16-2007, 11:48 PM

I have loaded 9mm ammo with Hercules Bullseye powder with good results in a P-38. Bullseye is a smokeless powder that burns a little dirty but in thousands of rounds of .45 ACP and 9mm Luger I have never had a split case or blown primer.

Sieger · 12-17-2007, 04:13 PM

Hi:

Try to match up with the original German Army loading of 124gr. bullet, loaded at 1.169 to 1.173 (round nose) at approximately 1,076 fps.

I agree that powder makes a difference, though some here would disagree with me on this point. If you reload, try some SR4756 or Power Pistol powder. These do the trick for me as far as accuracy and reliability go.

If your springs are in good shape, the S&B 124gr is a good bet, but nothing hotter please.

Good luck!

Sieger

davidkachel · 12-20-2007, 09:42 AM

My unsolicited take on hot loads:

When I was young and stupid (my kids have turned this around on me and now use the excuse, "but Dad, I'm young and stupid!") I was with the hot load crowd. Whether buying SuperVels for my J frame or loading my own miniature nuclear devices, I was sure hot loads were the way to go.

I now realize that no matter what the ammunition manufacturer says, every time you let off a near-max-pressure round in your weapon you are battering it. And since my tastes for the most part run to vintage weapons and on more than a few occasions am carrying a 50-100 year old pistol, there is no way I am going to overtax it. If I want more oomph in a load I opt for a heavier bullet instead of higher pressures.

The only exception is in the case of modern carry weapons, of which I have a few, designed for heavier loads. I CARRY them with the heavy loads but practice with the lighter loads. Only occasionally will I "use up" long in the tooth hot loads in a weapon I am certain can handle it.

If you love your guns, feed them tapioca, not jalapeÃ?Â±os!

The most important thing I've learned: a 20mm cannon round is useless if you miss! Shot placement is far more important than power and really makes the "most powerful" philosophy senseless.

raygun · 04-09-2008, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by G. van Vlimmeren
Hi,

Modern powders seem to have a pressure curve that differs from the old smokeless powders used in the first half of the last century. This also makes it a bit more difficult to find a good alternative load.

.

I believe Hercules "Unique" is very close to the original 9mm luger powder burning rate ! And it is a good all round medium burning pistol powder .

unspellable · 04-09-2008, 06:37 PM

In this context, a "hot" load refers to the impulse, not the pressure. The Luger will handle quite a bit of pressure, no sane load is going to over pressure it. On the other hand, excessive impulse will over stress it. The impulse is a function of bullet weight and velocity, with a bit extra thrown in for powder weight and gas velocity. As stated above, a normal load should be adequate, there is no need for a "hot" load.

bmcgilvray · 05-06-2008, 05:43 PM

I've also had really good results in the Luger and other 9mm handguns when handloading with Unique. In fact it seems to give good velocities and dependable function with less than max charge weights in all the automatic pistol cartridges in which I've used it.

11-18-2007, 12:50 PM	#1
zeke1312 User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hot Ammo? OK, I know I've read a post on the subject but please refresh my memory. What ammo is recommended for the 9MM? Is Wally Worlds Winchester 115 gr a good start? What is safe ammo? If the gun does not cycle is going to a hot load the typical solution? How hot is too hot? Is a +P or +P+ or some other and does it depend on the decade/manufacturer, etc? I guess it comes down to what is considered good ammo without being in danger of blowing your self up?

12-16-2007, 11:48 PM	#3
drewas User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 21 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have loaded 9mm ammo with Hercules Bullseye powder with good results in a P-38. Bullseye is a smokeless powder that burns a little dirty but in thousands of rounds of .45 ACP and 9mm Luger I have never had a split case or blown primer. __________________ "Cry Havoc! and let slip the dogs of war."--Julius Ceasar (Shakespeare)

12-17-2007, 04:13 PM	#4
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Luger Ammo Hi: Try to match up with the original German Army loading of 124gr. bullet, loaded at 1.169 to 1.173 (round nose) at approximately 1,076 fps. I agree that powder makes a difference, though some here would disagree with me on this point. If you reload, try some SR4756 or Power Pistol powder. These do the trick for me as far as accuracy and reliability go. If your springs are in good shape, the S&B 124gr is a good bet, but nothing hotter please. Good luck! Sieger

12-20-2007, 09:42 AM	#5
davidkachel User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 784 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	My unsolicited take on hot loads: When I was young and stupid (my kids have turned this around on me and now use the excuse, "but Dad, I'm young and stupid!") I was with the hot load crowd. Whether buying SuperVels for my J frame or loading my own miniature nuclear devices, I was sure hot loads were the way to go. I now realize that no matter what the ammunition manufacturer says, every time you let off a near-max-pressure round in your weapon you are battering it. And since my tastes for the most part run to vintage weapons and on more than a few occasions am carrying a 50-100 year old pistol, there is no way I am going to overtax it. If I want more oomph in a load I opt for a heavier bullet instead of higher pressures. The only exception is in the case of modern carry weapons, of which I have a few, designed for heavier loads. I CARRY them with the heavy loads but practice with the lighter loads. Only occasionally will I "use up" long in the tooth hot loads in a weapon I am certain can handle it. If you love your guns, feed them tapioca, not jalapeÃ?Â±os! The most important thing I've learned: a 20mm cannon round is useless if you miss! Shot placement is far more important than power and really makes the "most powerful" philosophy senseless. __________________ A heroin habit would be cheaper.

11-18-2007, 01:14 PM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Hi, The luger was designed around the 9mm luger round, so in theory it shouldn't have trouble with 9mm luger rounds that follow the same specifications as the originals. The +p and +p+ are mainly designed to go off at any given time, developing a velocity that maximizes impact. The performance of the round was deemed more important than the damage it did/does to the gun it is fired from. So not a good choice for a 70 - 100 year old pistol. The luger also hates rounds with an OAL that is rather short. The maximum SAAMI length for a 9mm round is the minimum length of the old world 9mm luger round. Hollow points usually don't feed very well either. Winchester WalMart 115grain is a good luger round. OAL is decent, shape is classic and load is up to the specs. In the old world we tend to use Sellier & Bellot 124 grain, as it's available, relatively cheap and up to the luger's preferred OAL standards. Modern powders seem to have a pressure curve that differs from the old smokeless powders used in the first half of the last century. This also makes it a bit more difficult to find a good alternative load. In my opinion, hotter loads are never the solution to cycling problems. The solution is to check what part of the package is causing problems, if any, and correct it. A normal 9mm luger should function with WWW 115gr., if it doesn't, something is wrong.

04-09-2008, 06:37 PM	#7
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 10 Posts	In this context, a "hot" load refers to the impulse, not the pressure. The Luger will handle quite a bit of pressure, no sane load is going to over pressure it. On the other hand, excessive impulse will over stress it. The impulse is a function of bullet weight and velocity, with a bit extra thrown in for powder weight and gas velocity. As stated above, a normal load should be adequate, there is no need for a "hot" load.

05-06-2008, 05:43 PM	#8
bmcgilvray User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Central Texas Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I've also had really good results in the Luger and other 9mm handguns when handloading with Unique. In fact it seems to give good velocities and dependable function with less than max charge weights in all the automatic pistol cartridges in which I've used it.