Norinco 9mm

sheepherder · 01-06-2010, 02:29 PM

My local gunshop didn't get any Win 231 in yet, so I asked for a box of brass-cased 124gr FMJ cartridges...Only one left was an old box of Norinco...(He had aluminum cased stuff; and hollow points; and frangible bulleted brass-cased stuff; and other stuff guaranteed to break apart if it hits a blade of grass)...

The headstamp reads " 9mm 90 ^ " (that's supposed to be a triangle)...

So...20 year old Chinese 9mm ammo...and no velocity/energy specs...

This should be interesting...

I won't shoot it in Luger/Walther...I'll try a round or two in the Star...If it's too hot, I'll blow it off in the S&W 659...

BTW: The original price tag read $9.99...

jonnyc · 01-06-2010, 03:27 PM

That's excellent shooting ammo in everything I have...except...I haven't tried any in my Luger. That stuff was imported a good while ago, and that was a steep price if original at the time.

Sieger · 01-06-2010, 07:15 PM

Hi:

The Chinese ammo is red hot, +P+, and should not be fired in a Luger!

Sieger

jonnyc · 01-06-2010, 07:24 PM

I have fired hundreds of those rounds, perhaps a 1000 or more, and it is definitely not "red hot" or +P+. I will try to remember to chrono some in one of my next outings.

Sieger · 01-06-2010, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyc

I have fired hundreds of those rounds, perhaps a 1000 or more, and it is definitely not "red hot" or +P+. I will try to remember to chrono some in one of my next outings.

Jonny:

The original Parabellum formula was a 124 grain fmj at 1,076 fps. I have examined original owner's manuals through the 1940s and have found no higher specs. listed. The myth of some special hotter ammo designed to shoot in the MP-38 and MP-40 seems to be just that, a myth.

Norinco ammo is comparable to our current military load, which is loaded at least 20% hotter than the pistol was designed to fire. In commercial specs. Norinco would be +P at least.

It's your Luger, so feel free to fire in it what you will.

Sieger

alamar · 01-06-2010, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyc

I have fired hundreds of those rounds, perhaps a 1000 or more, and it is definitely not "red hot" or +P+. I will try to remember to chrono some in one of my next outings.

I agree, have shot all kinds of calibres from Norinco, including this stuff.

Although as a warning, some of it smells like dog poop when you fire it.

alvin · 01-06-2010, 09:24 PM

I don't have pets so I cannot comment on this. But I tried a few hundred rounds of "Type 51 Pistol Steel Cartridge" 7,62x25 in a Norinco Tokarev some years ago, it smelled like baking sweet potato in oven.

rolandtg · 01-06-2010, 09:41 PM

I shot tons of this back in the day though my Browning, Llama, and Glock with no issues.
But never any though a Luger.

The ammo was brass cased with a brass jacketed bullet. (Or some other gold-colored metal)

jonnyc · 01-06-2010, 10:23 PM

"The Chinese ammo is red hot, +P+"
"Norinco would be +P at least"

Sieger, make up your mind. I don't think either is actually true, but as I said, I will try to chrono some soon.

Sieger · 01-06-2010, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyc

"The Chinese ammo is red hot, +P+"
"Norinco would be +P at least"

Sieger, make up your mind. I don't think either is actually true, but as I said, I will try to chrono some soon.

Jonny:

What does "at least" mean?

They must have a website somewhere. I'm telling you that it is NATO Spec. ammo.

I suggest you run at least 1,000 rounds through your most prized Luger and see if it is still functioning after the fact.

Sieger

jonnyc · 01-07-2010, 06:02 AM

You tell me, that was your quote.

Mauser George · 01-07-2010, 07:35 AM

Red Hot means something different to everyone. I enjoy Tabasco and find it pleasantly mild. To others it is Red Hot.

Does anyone know the specs of this Norinco ammo as that will tell all?

Stieger, off the top of my head I recall reading that the German 9mm Parabellum ammo being 124 gr and upwards of 1400 FPS!

Current 9mm Luger Winchester USA ammo 124 GR RN is only 1140fps!

Since I reload, I seldom purchase ammo!

Regards,

George

Sieger · 01-07-2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauser George

Red Hot means something different to everyone. I enjoy Tabasco and find it pleasantly mild. To others it is Red Hot.

Does anyone know the specs of this Norinco ammo as that will tell all?

Stieger, off the top of my head I recall reading that the German 9mm Parabellum ammo being 124 gr and upwards of 1400 FPS!

Current 9mm Luger Winchester USA ammo 124 GR RN is only 1140fps!

Since I reload, I seldom purchase ammo!

Regards,

George

Dear George:

Please provide written evidence of the 1,400 fps claim for 124 gr German Army ammo. Believe me, none such evidence exists.

Winchester ammo is propably at the 1,140 fps you claim. This ammo is right at the edge of functionality in some early Lugers, and does jam in others as well.

Current NATO Spec. 9mm is right at 1,260 fps, with a slightly lighter bullet. This is at or near the current Norinco ammo level (blue and red box). It is loaded approximately 20% hotter than the original German military ammo.

Lugers are not designed to shoot hot ammo. They usually will jam on the stuff.

Sieger

Sieger · 01-07-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyc

You tell me, that was your quote.

Jonny:

The phrase "at least" means...I'm trying to help the readers of this to keep their Lugers and their hands together.

Sieger

Conny · 01-07-2010, 12:56 PM

Jonny---Well, I'm not going to say the Norinco ammo is good or bad. I personally DO NOT EVER use ammo from a Communist Country. You cannot trust their products (toys, appliances, etc.) and I darn well wouldn't trust their ammo. If the burnt powder smells funny, it's probably because they make/use different or added components in the powder. So how can this ammo be NATO Spec? My wife (Taiwan Chinese) and I don't trust anything from China.

I will say if you shoot it in your Luger and things go bad, please don't cry here. It's your Luger, do what you want. Remember, Safety First!

jonnyc · 01-07-2010, 04:21 PM

"That's excellent shooting ammo in everything I have...except...I haven't tried any in my Luger. That stuff was imported a good while ago, and that was a steep price if original at the time."

Hmmm...this was my first post on the subject. Where does it say I'm planning on shooting any particular brand of ammo in my Luger? While we're at it, the usual Luger/ammo myth is that they only work with hot ammo, not that "weak American crap". Again, while we're at it, has anyone ever seen, first-hand, a Luger explode while firing NATO-spec or other "hot" ammo? I very much doubt it.

"The phrase "at least" means...I'm trying to help the readers of this to keep their Lugers and their hands together." - Sieger

"if you shoot it in your Luger and things go bad, please don't cry here" - Conny

I think you both have some serious ammo issues. I'll post the chrono results when I get to it.

sheepherder · 01-07-2010, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolandtg

The ammo was brass cased with a brass jacketed bullet. (Or some other gold-colored metal)

Yes, I noticed that. Pic attached, along with a round of my Sierra copper-jacketed reloads. Interesting. I've only seen one other brass-jacketed round, a WW II military cartridge...

alvin · 01-07-2010, 09:09 PM

If you donate 10 rounds to me, I can measure it's speed and post the result here. No estimation work for that's not needed. The speed can be easily measured.

Inconsistency could be a problem. Randomly picking up 10 rounds from the box, the result should be typical, at least for this box.

Sieger · 01-07-2010, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

If you donate 10 rounds to me, I can measure it's speed and post the result here. No estimation work for that's not needed. The speed can be easily measured.

Inconsistency could be a problem. Randomly picking up 10 rounds from the box, the result should be typical, at least for this box.

Alvin:

Actually, a donation of a box of the new Norinco (Red or Blue box) would have more current meaning.

If I were in Florida, where my pistols are, I'd be happy to donate a box, as I have no further use for it.

Sieger

Sieger · 01-07-2010, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyc

Again, while we're at it, has anyone ever seen, first-hand, a Luger explode while firing NATO-spec or other "hot" ammo? I very much doubt it.

Dear Jonny:

Yes we do have an example!

Just a few months ago, on this very forum, we had a report (photos included) of a Luger cracking both sides of its slide while shooting the Chinese stuff. Please do a search and you will find it.

Sieger

01-06-2010, 02:29 PM	#1
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,181 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts	Norinco 9mm My local gunshop didn't get any Win 231 in yet, so I asked for a box of brass-cased 124gr FMJ cartridges...Only one left was an old box of Norinco...(He had aluminum cased stuff; and hollow points; and frangible bulleted brass-cased stuff; and other stuff guaranteed to break apart if it hits a blade of grass)... The headstamp reads " 9mm 90 ^ " (that's supposed to be a triangle)... So...20 year old Chinese 9mm ammo...and no velocity/energy specs... This should be interesting... I won't shoot it in Luger/Walther...I'll try a round or two in the Star...If it's too hot, I'll blow it off in the S&W 659... BTW: The original price tag read $9.99... Attached Thumbnails

01-07-2010, 12:56 PM	#15
Conny User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Culpeper, Va. Posts: 279 Thanks: 0 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Jonny---Well, I'm not going to say the Norinco ammo is good or bad. I personally DO NOT EVER use ammo from a Communist Country. You cannot trust their products (toys, appliances, etc.) and I darn well wouldn't trust their ammo. If the burnt powder smells funny, it's probably because they make/use different or added components in the powder. So how can this ammo be NATO Spec? My wife (Taiwan Chinese) and I don't trust anything from China. I will say if you shoot it in your Luger and things go bad, please don't cry here. It's your Luger, do what you want. Remember, Safety First! __________________ Rangers Lead the Way, Duane Leiker

01-06-2010, 03:27 PM	#2
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	That's excellent shooting ammo in everything I have...except...I haven't tried any in my Luger. That stuff was imported a good while ago, and that was a steep price if original at the time.

01-06-2010, 07:15 PM	#3
Sieger User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,575 Thanks: 2,124 Thanked 400 Times in 249 Posts	Hi: The Chinese ammo is red hot, +P+, and should not be fired in a Luger! Sieger

01-06-2010, 07:24 PM	#4
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	I have fired hundreds of those rounds, perhaps a 1000 or more, and it is definitely not "red hot" or +P+. I will try to remember to chrono some in one of my next outings.

01-06-2010, 09:24 PM	#7
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I don't have pets so I cannot comment on this. But I tried a few hundred rounds of "Type 51 Pistol Steel Cartridge" 7,62x25 in a Norinco Tokarev some years ago, it smelled like baking sweet potato in oven.

01-06-2010, 09:41 PM	#8
rolandtg User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 471 Thanks: 361 Thanked 254 Times in 111 Posts	I shot tons of this back in the day though my Browning, Llama, and Glock with no issues. But never any though a Luger. The ammo was brass cased with a brass jacketed bullet. (Or some other gold-colored metal)

01-06-2010, 10:23 PM	#9
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	"The Chinese ammo is red hot, +P+" "Norinco would be +P at least" Sieger, make up your mind. I don't think either is actually true, but as I said, I will try to chrono some soon.

01-07-2010, 06:02 AM	#11
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	You tell me, that was your quote.

01-07-2010, 07:35 AM	#12
Mauser George User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New York Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Red Hot means something different to everyone. I enjoy Tabasco and find it pleasantly mild. To others it is Red Hot. Does anyone know the specs of this Norinco ammo as that will tell all? Stieger, off the top of my head I recall reading that the German 9mm Parabellum ammo being 124 gr and upwards of 1400 FPS! Current 9mm Luger Winchester USA ammo 124 GR RN is only 1140fps! Since I reload, I seldom purchase ammo! Regards, George

01-07-2010, 04:21 PM	#16
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	"That's excellent shooting ammo in everything I have...except...I haven't tried any in my Luger. That stuff was imported a good while ago, and that was a steep price if original at the time." Hmmm...this was my first post on the subject. Where does it say I'm planning on shooting any particular brand of ammo in my Luger? While we're at it, the usual Luger/ammo myth is that they only work with hot ammo, not that "weak American crap". Again, while we're at it, has anyone ever seen, first-hand, a Luger explode while firing NATO-spec or other "hot" ammo? I very much doubt it. "The phrase "at least" means...I'm trying to help the readers of this to keep their Lugers and their hands together." - Sieger "if you shoot it in your Luger and things go bad, please don't cry here" - Conny I think you both have some serious ammo issues. I'll post the chrono results when I get to it.

01-07-2010, 09:09 PM	#18
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	If you donate 10 rounds to me, I can measure it's speed and post the result here. No estimation work for that's not needed. The speed can be easily measured. Inconsistency could be a problem. Randomly picking up 10 rounds from the box, the result should be typical, at least for this box.