New member-question

[drewas]

I have posession of the following and don't know where to begin getting information about such a weapon. Any information would be helpful.

P-08 Luger pistole

Serial number: 7456
Date : 1913
Condition : 95%
Matching numbers, including one magazine with wooden butt cap.
Cal.: 9mm Parabellum
Original Ammo head stamp: â??9 m/m LUGER WRA,â?� seven rounds.
Manufacture: DWM Deutsche Waffen und Munitionfabrik (DWM)
Proof marks: C/W, C/W, C/F, Prussian Eagle (Fractur Gothic letters)
Unit markings: â??17.U.â?� (17th Ulanen {lancers, cavalry}

Captured from a German tank commander by Sgt. John Lex in Belgium, spring of 1944. Sgt. Lex was commanding an American Sherman tank. Included is a holster, dated 1916, and extra magazine of later manufacture with aluminum butt cap.

Magazine contains original ammunition, seven rounds.

[Ron Smith]

Hi Ralph,

It appears as though you have already researched it. What more did you want to know?

Welcome to the forum. A very nice Ulanen marked 1913.

Ron

[drewas]

Thanks for the reply, Ron. I've put together some info that I included in my post, but I'd like to know if anyone has info about the proof marks, the 17th Ulanen (is that from WWI or WWII?). Is it surprising to find such a weapon on an officer so late in the war? It seem likely that this pistol was issued in the First WW, but the condition is amazing. Were these guns refurbished before being re-issued in WWII?

I just want to learn all I can about Lugers in general and this weapon in particular. The soldier that brought this home was my father-in-law and a hero to me.

I've been reading info on this site and some of the posts and have learned more about Lugers this evening than I have in the past year. Thanks to all for the information.

[Ron Smith]

The 17th Ulanen was an Imperial Scout/Cavalry unit. It was disbanded at the end of WWI. Ulanen were light Scout/ Raiders whom the French despised and feared. For long after, the term Ulanen was a synonym in France for "The Boogie Man".


The Reichswehr 12th Reiter Regiment carried on the tradition of the 17th Ulanen during the 20s.

Your 1913 was indeed used during WWI, possibly between the wars and on into WWII, obviously.

The 17th Ulanen was part of the 23rd Infantry Division and 8th Cavalry Division during WWI.

It fought in Belgium , Marne, Aisne in 1914

Aisne, Somme, in 1915 and 1916

Champagne 1917

At the Battle of the Somme, Champagne, 2nd Battle of the Marne and Artois in 1918.

It was a distinguished unit...

Many Cavalry units were transitioned to Mechanized or Armored units during the 30s much the same as the U.S. Army transitioned at that period.
So, it makes sense that a tank officer would have a Cavalry marked Luger.


Hope this helps... What is the complete unit mark? Can you post a photo of it?

Ron

[drewas]

Thanks for the great information, Ron. Here is the photo you requested. My photography equipment is not the best for this kind of work, but I think you can see the markings well enough.

[drewas]

Here is a photo of the fractur markings that I am curious about. Any thoughts?

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/17cjpg_copy1.jpg

[drewas]

Hey, I think I just figured out how to post photos directly with my reply.

[Ron Smith]

The other marks are standard Proof and Acceptance marks found on all military Imperial (pre-1919) Lugers.

It appears that your pistol is a "stab" (staff) pistol. This would account for the excellent condition. Staff pistols were marked with just the primary unit mark. In this case 17.U. meaning that it was not issued to a Squadron and hadn't been placed in the weapon inventory. No weapon number added.

Staff pistols were kept in the unit armory for issue as needed. Staff pistols therefore saw little use and are found usually in good condition. Most Cavalry Lugers show fairly heavy use due to bouncing around in their holsters as the troopers rode.

Nice photos...

Ron

[drewas]

Thanks, again. There is much to learn about these marvelous pistols and you've helped me get a good start. I have no intention of shooting this piece, but hope to purchase a "shooter" soon and getting trigger time.

[Edward Tinker]

welcome to the forum, I see Ron has answered your questions.

You can post pictures two ways, the one with just the url can be changed from url to img and then the picture shows

or

you can upload one picture at a time in each posting. the advantage of the first way is you can upload 2, 3, or more pictures into the same posting.

Ed

[drewas]

Thanks, Ed. I am new to internet forums and will likely make a few mistakes as I find my way around. I appreciate the tips.

[Edward Tinker]

you're welcome and you seem like you're doing pretty darn good so far.


ed

[George Anderson]

What is the serial number (with suffix) of this pistol? This is the first 1913 either DWM or Erfurt that I have seen issued to a cavalry unit.

[drewas]

Serial number: 7456. There is no suffix. I don't have time this morning to post a close-up, but you can see the serial number in the first photo at the top of this thread. When I get home this evening I'll post some close-ups of the markings including the DWM crest. Thanks for your interest.

[Lugerdoc]

Drew, I would advise getting a stainless brush (won't hurt the rust blue finish) and some solvent and clean the rust off of the unit markings. I would also guess that your haven't had the grips off, and that there is some rust under them. Please clean & oil, as rust will only get worse and doesn't add to the value of your fine PO8. TH

[drewas]

Thanks for the tip, Doc. This gun sat untouched in its holster in an underwear drawer for 60 years! It is amazing to me that the finish is as near pristine as it is. I have cleaned and oiled very thoroughly since I've had it, but am fearful of doing any damage to the finish. You are right in that I have taken nothing apart, not even the grips. I am not unfamiliar with the cleaning and maintenance of firearms, but this one is special and I appreciate any helpful tips such as yours.

[drewas]

Here are a few more photos of the 1913 Ulanen P-08.

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/l2_copy2.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/l1_copy3.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/l3_copy2.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/l4_copy2.jpg
http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/l5_copy2.jpg

[MFC]

Ralph,
There aren't many Imperial military Lugers in that condition left on the planet. Just beautiful. Be careful when removing the left grip. No force necessary.

Tom (Lugerdoc),
I know you know waaaay more than me about lugers, but are you sure about the brush? I've heard of using brass or copper brushes but not stainless.
Mike C.

[Ron Wood]

A stainless brush works well, but it must be a very fine bristled brush. They are about the size and shape of a toothbrush, not the large size used to clean rust off of your barbeque grill or wrought iron gate. I do not like to use brass or copper brushes because they leave a colored residue on the gun. However, usually the residue can easily be removed with 0000 steel wool and oil

[tenbears]

Your 1913 DWM Ulan mark Luger is in select company. Very few of them are reported. I have a 1912 Erfurt unit marked to the 15 Ulan. Congrats on a fantastic find.