Screws for stock iron - Page 2

Olle · 03-21-2013, 08:00 AM

Rick,

Keep in mind that we are talking about historic artifact, if originality isn't important to you, you can just as well buy a reproduction stock. Some people will argue that "this is my gun, and I can do whatever I want to it". This is indeed true, but I still don't see myself as the owner of my old guns. I'm simply a temporary curator and it's my responsibility to keep and preserve the guns for future generations.

If you ask somebody at a museum, they would cringe at the thought of rethreading. Many preservation experts say that you shouldn't even try and hide a repair/alteration, as the repair or repair part can be mistaken for original later on, thus misrepresenting the object as being original and not repaired. Not only would it be dishonest to a possible buyer, it may also cause confusion and mistakes in future research.

Granted, there are situations where rethreading is the only option, but I can't see that this is one of them. I strongly agree with the preservation idea, any repair or alteration should be made in a reversible way. This is not always possible, but in this case it is. I have made many screws for my own projects, and I see rethreading as the very last resort.

If this is not enough to convince you, Jerry's point may. Why decrease the value of an original stock, just to save money on a screw? There's already too many "Bubba restored" guns and parts out there, and even if Bubba himself thought he was doing the right thing, he will know better when it's time to sell.

sheepherder · 03-21-2013, 08:20 AM

IMHO, if it were me, I would buy Patrice's set for his asking price, send them to Evans and ask him to make a set (and take dimensions), and recoup my investment with the copy (or copies).

This would allow you to replace your screws and provide future restorers a place to get accurate reproductions.

Kitkat041836 · 03-21-2013, 09:08 AM

All I have to say is get the right screws for your stock iron,I would not buy a stock that had the wrong stock iron screws.
If you drill out the stock iron and rethread the holes you have
destroyed the stock iron.
Thanks,George

lugerholsterrepair · 03-21-2013, 03:55 PM

Rick, My efforts for the last 2 decades have been to repair, restore, preserve and collect. I am first off a collector of historical original German Military artifacts. The only reproductions I have ever made have been those that were very rare, unavailable or too expensive.

I accurately preserve damaged and broken items..or ones bubba has ruined after taking some boneheads bad advice. The one I see all the time are holsters taken to a shoe repair guy..rather than restore them they are ruined forever..almost exactly like the idiot advice I heard one time about drilling out the original threads on an original stock iron.

"I guess I gave up on collecting years ago" Yes..I guess you have given up on collecting because anyone who is interested in preserving history, taking care of expensive historical artifacts as a collector entrusted to them would NEVER suggest such stupidity. I resent that a member such as yourself would not only suggest it to a new member but go on to try to defend it. It is exactly the opposite of what I stand for. Destruction of original German stock irons is too foolish to contemplate.

" I do hope that tomorrow goes better for you." It would be much better if I didn't have to waste time with people who post idiotic advice thanks.

If you have lost your passion for Luger collecting I understand but please do your best to keep bad ideas to yourself.

beachbaker · 03-21-2013, 09:20 PM

Rick, did you realize before you disparaged Jerry that this is foremost a collectors forum. The bulk of people that support this forum by answering questions are trying to support the history of these weapons. These people are not interested in short cuts and forever changing the originality of what ever artifact they have. Being cynical on it's own is not an answer to any part of this discussion. Curt

lugerholsterrepair · 03-22-2013, 10:30 AM

Rick, I would have the same passionate argument if a loved one were about to jump off a bridge. Don't do it..your an idiot to think that way. There are other solutions to your problem.

I have made a more than reasoned argument for not destroying an original stock iron. You cannot justify doing it other than.." it's all the same in the end " Remindes me of Hillary Clinton in her Bengazi hearings.."What difference does it make?"

To me it isn't all the same. I collect Artillery Lugers & stocks and everyone is a precious hard found, expensive acquisition. That a Member would so cavalierly advocate that another Member destroy his.. on a whim.. is such a betrayal of all I collect.. it must be answered.

I would welcome any reasoned argument for doing such a henious thing and you are welcome to respond.. but you can't and you won't.. because no such argument exists.

George Anderson · 03-22-2013, 11:36 AM

The only positive I can see in Rick's advice is that by screwing-up an original stock the collecting pool of originals becomes smaller and thus my collection becomes a tiny bit more valuable.

PatrickB · 03-22-2013, 07:58 PM

Gentlemen: I am new to this forum, and I was happy that a forum member had these screws and offered them to me. I have sent him the price for them because I want to fix my stock the best way I can. I considered rethreading to the screws I had but I could not bear to do so.

alanint · 03-22-2013, 08:37 PM

So, is this horse dead, then?

Grantas · 03-22-2013, 11:58 PM

So, what was the thread size?

Olle · 03-23-2013, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grantas

So, what was the thread size?

I would also like to know that, and a picture would be great as well. I make gun parts on a fairly regular basis, so this might be something I want to try.

PatrickB · 03-24-2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

I would also like to know that, and a picture would be great as well. I make gun parts on a fairly regular basis, so this might be something I want to try.

I'll make some thread measurements and post pictures when they come if they are correct.

Olle · 03-25-2013, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatrickB

I'll make some thread measurements and post pictures when they come if they are correct.

That would be great!

John Sabato · 03-26-2013, 08:44 AM

If you bought the screws from LU1900, you can count on them being correct... and yes, please post photographs of the screws when you get them... and the thread pitch if you can figure it out...

regul · 03-26-2013, 02:06 PM

There is a print for the stock iron screws in Volume III, page 1834 of The Borchart-Luger Pistols.

lugerholsterrepair · 03-26-2013, 06:56 PM

There is a print for the stock iron screws in Volume III, page 1834 of The Borchart-Luger Pistols.

Took a look..It's pretty useless for any reproduction purposes.

regul · 03-27-2013, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

There is a print for the stock iron screws in Volume III, page 1834 of The Borchart-Luger Pistols.

Took a look..It's pretty useless for any reproduction purposes.

Jerry
I compaired a original stock iron screw to the drawing of the screw (which is not a 1:1 scale drawing as to length) on page 1834 and it is accurate.
The best match for thread pitch I could find appears to be Whitworth (55 Degree) 30G.
Thanks
Ed Roane

Olle · 03-27-2013, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by regul

Jerry
I compaired a original stock iron screw to the drawing of the screw (which is not a 1:1 scale drawing as to length) on page 1834 and it is accurate.
The best match for thread pitch I could find appears to be Whitworth (55 Degree) 30G.
Thanks
Ed Roane

Do you know what the thread pitch is? Diameters and tool angles are easily changed when making screws in the lathe, but it will take some math to come up with the correct change gear combination if it doesn't correspond to a common standard or metric pitch.

LU1900 · 03-27-2013, 01:18 PM

Original screws are on way to Pat , comming back from my gunsmith I buy a pair repro for 50€ .
Not blued , in the white and fit perfectely !

Olle · 03-27-2013, 05:36 PM

If there's a die available, those would be a piece of cake to make...

03-21-2013, 08:20 AM	#22
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,181 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts	IMHO, if it were me, I would buy Patrice's set for his asking price, send them to Evans and ask him to make a set (and take dimensions), and recoup my investment with the copy (or copies). This would allow you to replace your screws and provide future restorers a place to get accurate reproductions. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

03-21-2013, 03:55 PM	#24
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Rick, My efforts for the last 2 decades have been to repair, restore, preserve and collect. I am first off a collector of historical original German Military artifacts. The only reproductions I have ever made have been those that were very rare, unavailable or too expensive. I accurately preserve damaged and broken items..or ones bubba has ruined after taking some boneheads bad advice. The one I see all the time are holsters taken to a shoe repair guy..rather than restore them they are ruined forever..almost exactly like the idiot advice I heard one time about drilling out the original threads on an original stock iron. "I guess I gave up on collecting years ago" Yes..I guess you have given up on collecting because anyone who is interested in preserving history, taking care of expensive historical artifacts as a collector entrusted to them would NEVER suggest such stupidity. I resent that a member such as yourself would not only suggest it to a new member but go on to try to defend it. It is exactly the opposite of what I stand for. Destruction of original German stock irons is too foolish to contemplate. " I do hope that tomorrow goes better for you." It would be much better if I didn't have to waste time with people who post idiotic advice thanks. If you have lost your passion for Luger collecting I understand but please do your best to keep bad ideas to yourself. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-21-2013, 09:20 PM	#25
beachbaker Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: california Posts: 135 Thanks: 27 Thanked 106 Times in 29 Posts	Rick, did you realize before you disparaged Jerry that this is foremost a collectors forum. The bulk of people that support this forum by answering questions are trying to support the history of these weapons. These people are not interested in short cuts and forever changing the originality of what ever artifact they have. Being cynical on it's own is not an answer to any part of this discussion. Curt __________________ Curt

03-22-2013, 10:30 AM	#26
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Rick, I would have the same passionate argument if a loved one were about to jump off a bridge. Don't do it..your an idiot to think that way. There are other solutions to your problem. I have made a more than reasoned argument for not destroying an original stock iron. You cannot justify doing it other than.." it's all the same in the end " Remindes me of Hillary Clinton in her Bengazi hearings.."What difference does it make?" To me it isn't all the same. I collect Artillery Lugers & stocks and everyone is a precious hard found, expensive acquisition. That a Member would so cavalierly advocate that another Member destroy his.. on a whim.. is such a betrayal of all I collect.. it must be answered. I would welcome any reasoned argument for doing such a henious thing and you are welcome to respond.. but you can't and you won't.. because no such argument exists. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know." Last edited by lugerholsterrepair; 03-22-2013 at 12:03 PM.

03-26-2013, 08:44 AM	#34
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	If you bought the screws from LU1900, you can count on them being correct... and yes, please post photographs of the screws when you get them... and the thread pitch if you can figure it out... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-21-2013, 08:00 AM	#21
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 663 Times in 318 Posts	Rick, Keep in mind that we are talking about historic artifact, if originality isn't important to you, you can just as well buy a reproduction stock. Some people will argue that "this is my gun, and I can do whatever I want to it". This is indeed true, but I still don't see myself as the owner of my old guns. I'm simply a temporary curator and it's my responsibility to keep and preserve the guns for future generations. If you ask somebody at a museum, they would cringe at the thought of rethreading. Many preservation experts say that you shouldn't even try and hide a repair/alteration, as the repair or repair part can be mistaken for original later on, thus misrepresenting the object as being original and not repaired. Not only would it be dishonest to a possible buyer, it may also cause confusion and mistakes in future research. Granted, there are situations where rethreading is the only option, but I can't see that this is one of them. I strongly agree with the preservation idea, any repair or alteration should be made in a reversible way. This is not always possible, but in this case it is. I have made many screws for my own projects, and I see rethreading as the very last resort. If this is not enough to convince you, Jerry's point may. Why decrease the value of an original stock, just to save money on a screw? There's already too many "Bubba restored" guns and parts out there, and even if Bubba himself thought he was doing the right thing, he will know better when it's time to sell.

03-21-2013, 09:08 AM	#23
Kitkat041836 RIP Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 195 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts	All I have to say is get the right screws for your stock iron,I would not buy a stock that had the wrong stock iron screws. If you drill out the stock iron and rethread the holes you have destroyed the stock iron. Thanks,George

03-22-2013, 11:36 AM	#27
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	The only positive I can see in Rick's advice is that by screwing-up an original stock the collecting pool of originals becomes smaller and thus my collection becomes a tiny bit more valuable.

03-22-2013, 07:58 PM	#28
PatrickB User Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Virginia Posts: 26 Thanks: 2 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	Gentlemen: I am new to this forum, and I was happy that a forum member had these screws and offered them to me. I have sent him the price for them because I want to fix my stock the best way I can. I considered rethreading to the screws I had but I could not bear to do so.

03-22-2013, 08:37 PM	#29
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	So, is this horse dead, then?

03-22-2013, 11:58 PM	#30
Grantas Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: New Zealand Posts: 53 Thanks: 268 Thanked 22 Times in 19 Posts	So, what was the thread size?

03-26-2013, 02:06 PM	#35
regul Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: VA Posts: 96 Thanks: 19 Thanked 57 Times in 20 Posts	There is a print for the stock iron screws in Volume III, page 1834 of The Borchart-Luger Pistols.

03-26-2013, 06:56 PM	#36
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	There is a print for the stock iron screws in Volume III, page 1834 of The Borchart-Luger Pistols. Took a look..It's pretty useless for any reproduction purposes. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-27-2013, 01:18 PM	#39
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 900 Thanks: 35 Thanked 461 Times in 193 Posts	Original screws are on way to Pat , comming back from my gunsmith I buy a pair repro for 50€ . Not blued , in the white and fit perfectely ! __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

03-27-2013, 05:36 PM	#40
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 663 Times in 318 Posts	If there's a die available, those would be a piece of cake to make...