Newbie Introduction and 1937 S-42 pics

[wlyon]

Sapper
Personally I can see no reason to have this restored. It is what it is. I doubt if you could ever get back the funds spent on restoration. Enjoy it the way it is. If you get the luger bug then purchase a better grade luger. You will be money ahead. Welcome to the Forum. Bill

[John Sabato]

Welcome to the Lugerforum. The gun is apparently in good mechanical condition, and the lack of finish puzzles me. If this is not a family heirloom, then I agree with Bill Lyon, and the refinish or restoration is not warranted. Just keep it clean and oiled.

The grips appear to me to be genuine original German production grips (post 1940) and are fragile. They can break if dropped or during firing since the bakelite is nearly 70 years old. I would sell them to a collector... you can offer them here in the for sale forum for around $250 and someone who needs them to complete their collectible Luger will buy them...and get yourself a nice set of reproduction grips in plastic or wood for less than $40 if you so choose.

You were wrong about your photos, they are of high quality... (except for the photo of just the underside of the barrel which is out of focus) they are much better than most post here.

Now to the matter of whether or not the gun is all matching... I don't think so. I think the sideplate has been replaced, and possibly numbered to match your pistol. Why?

Because the sideplate is not marked properly on the inside... I would like our Mauser experts to consider that the two digit number on the inside of a Mauser sideplate is NORMALLY one digit higher than the first two digits of the whole serial number... so in this case the number on the inside of the sideplate SHOULD be "75" and not "74"

If this is not the case for 1937 Lugers, then someone who has a published reference, or experience looking at many of this year Luger please comment. (Jan Still, Frank Manders are you listening?)

Thanks for sharing, and if you have any other questions just ask!

[FNorm]

There are folks on this list who could help more than I can. They should be along shortly.

Opps They're already here! LOL. Bill and John snuck in ahead of me while I was on the phone.

See New collectors forum, FAQ, item #20, discussion of side plates.

FN

O

[mrerick]

The discussion of the Mauser side plate interior s/n transition in 1937 is in FAQ #24 of Ed Tinker's New Collectors forum FAQ posting...

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=13121

It indicates that in an early 1937 Mauser, the first two digits of the serial number (instead of first two digits +1 found on later Mausers) would be correct.

Seeing some rust inside the back of the receiver, I wonder if there was once more surface rust on this Luger, and someone took steel wool and Naval Jelly to it to try and remove it... That would efficiently remove the bluing too.

Marc

[tau-delt]

IMO your grips are original and what I call Type 6 in my Black Grip Study over on the other Luger forum. As mentioned earlier, they are not correct for this gun.

http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=8859

[Sapper]

wlyon, John Sabato, FN, et al

OK I'm hooked. We've got possibly original black grips on the wrong pistol, a trigger sideplate that may have been altered, and metal finishing that makes no sense to anyone. My uncle says the pistol is in the same condition it was in when he received it from my grandfather. My uncle was also known to do some pretty inexplicable things in his younger years. I love a good mystery, and this one only makes the gun more valuable to me. I know I'll never recoup the money that I'll pay for a restoration, but I've never been interested in selling it anyway. My sincere thanks to everyone for taking a little time to help me.

Regards,

Sapper

[tau-delt]

Sapper.... FWIW I will tell you that the black grips were also used as replacement grips after roughly 1941. So they could have very well been put on during the war but were not on the gun when it left the Mauser factory in 1937.

[Sapper]

tau-delt, Thanks for the link. I'd love to know how these grips (rather rare from what I gather) got matched with this pistol (relatively common?). I'll be sure to take them off and put them somewhere safe until I decide whether or not to trade them.

mrerick, Thanks for clearing up the sideplate issue. If I read your post correctly, I guess that means that I'm back to having a sorta matching pistol (minus the grips and magazine of course). Certain parts of the pistol definitely look white while the barrel retains quite a bit of blue. I think your scenario fits the situation quite well. I think my uncle tried to clean the rust off certain parts and ended up stripping the finishing. Now that he knows what these pistols can be worth, he's too embarrassed to admit his mistake. Ha!

Regards,

Sapper

[tau-delt]

Sapper..... I agree about it being the correct sideplate.

I took another look at your great pictues and believe I see an Eagle over 6 stamp on your hold open. IMO this is a replacement part originally made by Simson and again could have been a replacement during the war. Simson stamped parts show up on 1939 Mauser Banner guns and many believe that left over parts from Simson went to Mauser.

The original hold open would have had the last 2 digits stamped like the rest of the parts.

If it were mine, I would leave it just like it is.....

[Sapper]

tau-delt,

Man this is fun. We've figured out the sideplate is okay, but now the hold-open is not original. I just checked it again (minus the spring - arghh!), and the only mark on the piece is the Eagle over 6 stamp you mentioned. Now I won't feel bad about replacing the broken hold-open spring. I'm really torn about having the pistol restored. Since my intent is for this pistol to remain in the family forever (I know, I know), I'd like to have it as nice as possible. I kind of feel like the later destruction of the original finish has already made this piece historically inaccurate. If I knew for sure that this pistol is in the same condition it was in when it was brought back, I'd leave it as is. I think the evidence is starting to show a few post-war modifications though. Opinions and suggestions welcome!

Regards,

Sapper

[FNorm]

Sapper,

"Man this is fun..." We got him hooked guys!!!!

Read Tau-Delt again. This may/could be the original HO. Some things we'll never know.

FN

[Sapper]

FN,

Yeah, you guys got me. I guess I'm not clear about tau-delt's post. My current hold-open is most likely a Simson replacement either used to repair my pistol at some point or sent to the Mauser factory as an overrun. But wouldn't Mauser still have produced a numbered original hold-open for my pistol? Or would that part have been omitted from the production cycle because they had a quantity of Simson hold-opens on hand for use in assembly? I know we'll never know the answer to these questions as they relate to my pistol, but if I did have any intention of selling it -- is it possible that my metal parts might have been all original from the factory but non-matching (because of the hold-open and the Simson overruns) and therefore not as valuable?

Regards,

Sapper

[mrerick]

Simson only made 12,000 Lugers from the early 1920's (when they also rebuilt many WW-I guns) through 1933 when they were dissolved and the tooling shipped to Krieghoff.

So, Simson manufactured pistols and parts are rather scarce and valuable. The Eagle/6 inspector was assigned to the Simson plant.

If you want to have it "as nice as possible", I'd suggest that you're there right now, with repair of the hold-open spring. Just keep it protected with protective lubricant.

A proper restoration by someone that is expert on these will run several hundred dollars. A local shop might be able to do it for a lot less, but would end up doing something that was not authentic to it's original condition. In any case, the way it left the factory was probably quite different from the way your grandfather found it.

The process of "rust bluing" is quite different from hot salts bluing that is more commonly done. Search around and you'll find some interesting information on this and strawing...

Remember, during the war they didn't care about the markings on the parts - they just wanted Lugers to work properly.

It's very possible that the Simson part was installed during a factory, depot or an Army field armory rework.

Marc

[Sapper]

mrerick,

Gotcha. I think I'll defer to you guys on the restoration. What does everyone think about trading the black grips (if they do indeed turn out to be real as the above posts seem to indicate) for a set of correct grips and a correct magazine? Also, what oil/lube/etc. do you guys recommend for optimal preservation and appearance?

Regards,

Sapper

[FNorm]

Ditto Marc above. It is sortta a family heirloom, I'd probably keep it as it was passed down. Maybe do something about the finish?? As Bill says, if you want, get another, a better collector grade.

How does it shoot? One of my best shooters is a totally mis-matched 41 byf. There must be 5 different numbers in there, the frame is salt blued, the upper is rust blued, the trigger guard looks like a tank ran over it, BUT it shoots very well!

hehehe... PSST! Hey Kid! The first one was for free. Now, wanna buy a REAL luger? Don't worry, you can quit anytime you want... LOL

FN

[Sapper]

FN,

HA! Quitting isn't the issue. If only I could buy one anytime I want...

I've only ran one box of rounds through this pistol since I've owned it, so I can't really vouch for it's accuracy. It fed and fired fine, and I'm sure it shoots better than I do. I did kill a skunk with it. The stupid thing was wandering around my driveway in broad daylight acting slow and confused. The P08 was the only weapon I had handy, and it did the job very well at about 8 meters. The hold open spring broke during reassembly and not during firing.

Any ideas about what I could do to help the finish?

Regards,

Sapper

[mrerick]

There are many oils that help prevent corrosion.

This site links to one:

http://www.boeshield.com/rust_preven...s_firearms.php

I use RemOil (from Remmington) spray and some 3M lubricant sprays. Some swear by Kroil.

Don't use WD-40...

Spray em on... let them sit for a while; wipe the excess off. Avoid the grips.

Marc

[FNorm]

Hmmm. slow and confused could equal rabid. good shot! what part of the country you in?

FN

[John Sabato]

If you DO decide that you have going to have the finish of this gun restored, PLEASE don't give the work to anyone who will BUFF THE DAYLIGHTS out of it... even without finish, your markings are clear and all sharp edges are still sharp. Keep it that way... that's the way it left the factory. Shiney isn't always better.

[Sapper]

FN, That's what I was thinking. I'm in NE Penna above Scranton/below Binghamton, NY.

JS, I hear Thor here does outstanding work. Anyone else recommended?

Regards,

Sapper