1918 DWM with Zn marking

karmast · 03-13-2003, 04:12 AM

I didn't know where to post else, though I think I am in the wrong section, because it didn't seem as a unit marking to me:

a local gun shop sold an deactivated luger, DWM 1918, all parts matching, in a 2-3 condition, nothing special.
The only thing I discovered was the marking "Zn" over the "1918" in the same fonts type like the 1918 and in the same manner beaten in so I think it was no "field-modification".
I was wondering what this "Zn" could mean..

Perhaps one of you knows?

JohnF · 03-13-2003, 05:00 AM

Could you please post a photo of this marking?
Regards,
John

karmast · 03-13-2003, 06:22 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by JohnF:
Could you please post a photo of this marking?
Regards,
John<hr /></blockquote>Thats the problem: I did not have a camera with me and it is already sold..
I wanted to buy this piece and decided then to another one.
Now I think I should have taken the mysterious "Zn", I have never seen something like this before.
I can only describe it: it is in the same font type and the same manner beaten as the 1918, has the same size like the 1918 and was directly over the year stamp. Both markings were filled with wite color.
It didn't look like these 1920-proberty stamps you can somethimes find, it was in a better quality beaten in.
The gun had no unit marking and was in a condition I would rate as used.

I made up my mind and now I could imagine it as a marking for "Zossen", a German town, but I don't know of something special in Zossen..
Perhaps it could be a marking of a local BÃ?Â¼rgerwehr, a citicens guard.
Perhaps a Freikorps, a freecorps?
But that is digging in the dirt, I could be totally wrong.. and I fear I am.
But perhaps somebody knows?

Lugerdoc · 03-13-2003, 10:10 AM

Karmas, I've forgotten the exact definintion of your "Zn" chamber marking, but I do recall that it was discussed in great detail some years ago in Automag, and the general consenus was that this was a military rework facility. Tom H.

karmast · 03-13-2003, 12:03 PM

@Lugerdoc: Wow, that brings me on a new trail!!
Thank you very much for this comment, now I know where to search.
Can you remember, in which year it was discussed?

trigger643 · 03-20-2003, 07:30 AM

From John Walter's Luger Book... "Zn. Above the chambers of P.08: probably 'Zielmunition' (i.e., suitable only for aim-training purposes). Many German rifles were also converted to use rimfire ammunition, often in conjuntion with barrel-liners. Note: claims that 'Zn' is 'a year code for 1927' (this was apparently 'M') or that frames are 'zinc' (chemical symbol Zn) are mistaken."

karmast · 05-01-2003, 12:27 PM

Thank you very much, trigger643!

Edward Tinker · 02-15-2016, 11:44 PM

Let me be bad and pop up an ancient thread

This weekend, a forum member brought a Zn 1918 to show me at Allentown. I really should have taken pictures. I told him, I REMEMBER HEARING ABOUT THESE!! But I don't think I have ever seen one in real life. Unless Bill M had one?

Ed

George Anderson · 02-16-2016, 10:36 AM

Heeres-Munitionsanstalt Zeithain

Edward Tinker · 02-16-2016, 10:42 AM

Geo, not very common

kkiley · 02-17-2016, 08:29 PM

Ed it was my gun here are some pics there is also a post on Jan's sight under Zn marked Luger Kevin http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...75d=1455758875

sheepherder · 02-17-2016, 10:06 PM

Another crown/RC? They be comin' outta the woodwork, mon...

Edward Tinker · 02-17-2016, 11:17 PM

Kevin, its a nice one

kkiley · 02-18-2016, 07:27 AM

Thanks Ed my wife and I enjoyed meeting and talking with you and your son thanks again Kevin

sheepherder · 11-08-2016, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkiley

...there is also a post on Jan's sight under Zn marked Luger...

I Searched on Jan's site for a topic like that and couldn't find it, although I did find several of your posts/threads with your Zn avatar. Do you have a direct link to your Zn thread???

kkiley · 11-08-2016, 09:50 PM

Try this http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...-marked-Erfurt kevin

sheepherder · 11-08-2016, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkiley

there is also a post on Jan's sight under Zn marked Luger

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkiley

Try this ]http://luger.gunboards.com/showthread.php?32501-ID-help-with-Zn-marked-Erfurt kevin

Aha! vBulletin Search engines are terribly literal; Erfurt instead of Luger makes a big difference! Thanks!

Also, I'm a moron...

03-13-2003, 04:12 AM	#1
karmast User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	1918 DWM with Zn marking I didn't know where to post else, though I think I am in the wrong section, because it didn't seem as a unit marking to me: a local gun shop sold an deactivated luger, DWM 1918, all parts matching, in a 2-3 condition, nothing special. The only thing I discovered was the marking "Zn" over the "1918" in the same fonts type like the 1918 and in the same manner beaten in so I think it was no "field-modification". I was wondering what this "Zn" could mean.. Perhaps one of you knows? __________________ Every Luger tells a story - but you have to find out what it says..

03-13-2003, 06:22 AM	#3
karmast User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by JohnF: <strong>Could you please post a photo of this marking? Regards, John</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Thats the problem: I did not have a camera with me and it is already sold.. I wanted to buy this piece and decided then to another one. Now I think I should have taken the mysterious "Zn", I have never seen something like this before. I can only describe it: it is in the same font type and the same manner beaten as the 1918, has the same size like the 1918 and was directly over the year stamp. Both markings were filled with wite color. It didn't look like these 1920-proberty stamps you can somethimes find, it was in a better quality beaten in. The gun had no unit marking and was in a condition I would rate as used. I made up my mind and now I could imagine it as a marking for "Zossen", a German town, but I don't know of something special in Zossen.. Perhaps it could be a marking of a local BÃ?Â¼rgerwehr, a citicens guard. Perhaps a Freikorps, a freecorps? But that is digging in the dirt, I could be totally wrong.. and I fear I am. But perhaps somebody knows? __________________ Every Luger tells a story - but you have to find out what it says..

03-13-2003, 10:10 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Karmas, I've forgotten the exact definintion of your "Zn" chamber marking, but I do recall that it was discussed in great detail some years ago in Automag, and the general consenus was that this was a military rework facility. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-13-2003, 12:03 PM	#5
karmast User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	@Lugerdoc: Wow, that brings me on a new trail!! Thank you very much for this comment, now I know where to search. Can you remember, in which year it was discussed? __________________ Every Luger tells a story - but you have to find out what it says..

03-20-2003, 07:30 AM	#6
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	From John Walter's Luger Book... "Zn. Above the chambers of P.08: probably 'Zielmunition' (i.e., suitable only for aim-training purposes). Many German rifles were also converted to use rimfire ammunition, often in conjuntion with barrel-liners. Note: claims that 'Zn' is 'a year code for 1927' (this was apparently 'M') or that frames are 'zinc' (chemical symbol Zn) are mistaken." __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

03-13-2003, 05:00 AM	#2
JohnF User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: UK Posts: 167 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Could you please post a photo of this marking? Regards, John

05-01-2003, 12:27 PM	#7
karmast User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 57 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you very much, trigger643! __________________ Every Luger tells a story - but you have to find out what it says..

02-15-2016, 11:44 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Let me be bad and pop up an ancient thread This weekend, a forum member brought a Zn 1918 to show me at Allentown. I really should have taken pictures. I told him, I REMEMBER HEARING ABOUT THESE!! But I don't think I have ever seen one in real life. Unless Bill M had one? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

02-16-2016, 10:36 AM	#9
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Heeres-Munitionsanstalt Zeithain

02-16-2016, 10:42 AM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Geo, not very common

02-17-2016, 08:29 PM	#11
kkiley User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: maryland Posts: 32 Thanks: 48 Thanked 23 Times in 12 Posts	Ed it was my gun here are some pics there is also a post on Jan's sight under Zn marked Luger Kevin http://forum.lugerforum.com/attachme...75d=1455758875 Attached Thumbnails Last edited by kkiley; 02-17-2016 at 08:48 PM. Reason: my name

02-17-2016, 10:06 PM	#12
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,181 Thanks: 1,398 Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts	Another crown/RC? They be comin' outta the woodwork, mon... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

02-17-2016, 11:17 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	Kevin, its a nice one

02-18-2016, 07:27 AM	#14
kkiley User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: maryland Posts: 32 Thanks: 48 Thanked 23 Times in 12 Posts	Thanks Ed my wife and I enjoyed meeting and talking with you and your son thanks again Kevin

11-08-2016, 09:50 PM	#16
kkiley User Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: maryland Posts: 32 Thanks: 48 Thanked 23 Times in 12 Posts	Try this http://luger.gunboards.com/showthrea...-marked-Erfurt kevin