Help Please

Flintlock2016 · 03-27-2016, 10:51 AM

hello Everyone
I'm new to the forum and know nothing about lugers, just that I like the look of them.
I intend to buy one and wondered if you knowledgeable guys could cast an eye over my pictures and let me know what you think?
Is the serial number correct for the model or should it have a letter suffix?
Any comments would be gratefully received.
thanks
John

DavidJayUden · 03-27-2016, 11:29 AM

The letter suffix is under the numbers on the front of the frame. "A"?
I can't comment on whether the numbers are correct for the date, but nothing scares me on the gun, if priced accordingly for its condition. I'm curious what the others say the stamping is on the left side ahead of the number.
What is the asking price?
dju

Flintlock2016 · 03-27-2016, 11:50 AM

Hi dju
Thanks for your reply. The asking price is £750.
John

sheepherder · 03-27-2016, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flintlock2016

Hi dju
Thanks for your reply. The asking price is £750.
John

That's Pounds Sterling??? Is it deactivated???

Looks to be a 1936 Mauser made S/42. Just before Mauser reinstated the hump.

Flintlock2016 · 03-27-2016, 12:13 PM

Yes, pounds sterling and deactivated.

sheepherder · 03-27-2016, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

I'm curious what the others say the stamping is on the left side ahead of the number.

Me, too. Looks like something for the FAQ.

Crossed swords, w/D & A over 15???

guns3545 · 03-27-2016, 12:27 PM

John,

Welcome to the Forum.

This appears to be a well worn, but overtly honest 1936 Model P.08, the standard issue of the day to the German Armed Forces.

The letter suffix is a "k' indicating it was made in Spring 1936 at the Mauser Factory in Oberndorf am Neckar.

Somewhere along the way, it was proofed in the UK. The crossed swords and letters and initials indicate the Birmingham Proof House.

More, I cannot say.

Hope this helps,

John

Flintlock2016 · 03-27-2016, 12:54 PM

Thanks for your reply John.
The Birmingham proof marks make sense, because I live in the UK and the gun is on sale here, having been deactivated in the uk.
Cheers
John

DonVoigt · 03-27-2016, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepherder

Me, too. Looks like something for the FAQ.

Crossed swords, w/D & A over 15???

I'll venture Birmingham, D(e)A(ctivated) in 2015.

Edward Tinker · 03-27-2016, 06:42 PM

I am glad there are others on the forum; I was thinking, that marking on the left side looks familiar, but I was going down the wrong path!

Ed

DavidJayUden · 03-27-2016, 07:03 PM

I wonder if that stamping isn't a specific deactivation mark? If it were from a British proof house surely there would be a lot more stuff stamped here, there, and everywhere.
Flintlock, we heard talk recently that the EU was cracking down on deactivated guns too. Anything to that?
dju

Flintlock2016 · 03-27-2016, 07:20 PM

Hi Dju
From what I know when a weapon is deactivated in uk it only has the one stamp of the proof house that actually did the job. If a gun is proofed in the uk there are a lot more marks.
On 8th. April this year, new deactivation rules come into force for every EU country. For pistols for example, it involves permanently fixing magazines in place and deactivating them. The new rules will be applied retrospectively, so any gun deactivated before 8th April but bought after that date will have to re-deactivated to comply with the new rules.
John

mrerick · 03-27-2016, 08:02 PM

There is also a problem in Eastern Europe with inadequate deactivation of guns. These minimally deactivated guns are sold without any of the traditional controls associated with usable firearms. Then, with the simple replacement of a barrel or other component, they can be restored to fully usable firearms.

I'm not a fan of deactivation, but if you're going to do it you should do it in such a was as to not allow them to easily be re-activated by criminals.

Vlim recently shared this report on the issue...

Sergio Natali · 03-28-2016, 04:44 AM

Apart all that has been said, I'd like to hear other people's opinions on the date 1936 on the chamber...

guns3545 · 03-28-2016, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

Apart all that has been said, I'd like to hear other people's opinions on the date 1936 on the chamber...

Sergio,

Good catch!! Never paid attention to it. Certainly did not leave the factory that way.

Mea Culpa!!

John

Flintlock2016 · 03-28-2016, 09:55 AM

hi Sergio and John
Thanks for your comments about the date. As I said earlierI know nothing about Lugers so would you be able to explain your doubts so that I might learn.
Thanks again
John

guns3545 · 03-28-2016, 10:41 AM

John,

This is one of those difficult situations where there is no substitute for having the gun in hand.

First, a word about markings.

Dates were rollmarked onto the chamber of the receiver. This process involved holding the piece firmly in a jig, and heavily rolling a die, shaped like a wheel across the surface thus impressing what was on the die into the metal. Hence rollmarking. This technique is used when the same mark must be impressed on many, many pieces; like the 100,000 or so Model P.08s Mauser would make in a year. Or the 10,000 suffixes in a block

This contrasts with proof marks and serial numbers which were stamped with a die and a hammer. Hence each piece is individually stamped.

Both hand stamping and rollmarking leave ridged edges and squarish corners. Neither removes metal; it displaces it.

Alternatively you can use a rotary cutter and a pantograph to cut metal letters and numbers into the metal. And..since the tool is a rotary tool, it leaves curved corners. And metal is actually removed, not just displaced.

Now, first the good news. The location and style of numbers on your pistol look correct. The chamber date in 1936 used slightly different fonts than 1937 and subsequent years. Later years were less squarish. This is why no red flags showed up for me the first time around.

But, and this is a big but; the numbers look deep, and with magnification of your photo, the edges look a little off. Now.. it could just be the photo. But, you should take a good look at the chamber date especially taking note, seeking rounded corners. And, a square bottom, as the rotary tool had a square bottom whereas dies are slightly tapered and the depth of the number is slightly wedged shaped.

This might indicate that the date was freshened up.

That's about it. You may wish to browse the site searching for "1936 chamber marks". Or simply 1936. There should be chamber photos on the site.

Or, alternatively, go to this site and you will see numerous examples of Lugers and their markings. Search the section entitled Mauser.

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=179

Hope it helps.

John

Flintlock2016 · 03-28-2016, 11:49 AM

Many many thanks John. I would guess that would devalue the gun quite a lot?
Glad I haven't bought it.
John

DavidJayUden · 03-28-2016, 12:11 PM

Here are a couple of photos of my 1936 shooter, both the same gun:

Flintlock2016 · 03-28-2016, 12:17 PM

Thanks again, dju. The gun I was considering looks nothing like that!

03-27-2016, 10:51 AM	#1
Flintlock2016 User Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 35 Thanks: 35 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Help Please hello Everyone I'm new to the forum and know nothing about lugers, just that I like the look of them. I intend to buy one and wondered if you knowledgeable guys could cast an eye over my pictures and let me know what you think? Is the serial number correct for the model or should it have a letter suffix? Any comments would be gratefully received. thanks John Attached Thumbnails

03-27-2016, 06:42 PM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	I am glad there are others on the forum; I was thinking, that marking on the left side looks familiar, but I was going down the wrong path! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-28-2016, 04:44 AM	#14
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Apart all that has been said, I'd like to hear other people's opinions on the date 1936 on the chamber... __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

03-28-2016, 12:11 PM	#19
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Here are a couple of photos of my 1936 shooter, both the same gun: Attached Thumbnails

03-27-2016, 11:29 AM	#2
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	The letter suffix is under the numbers on the front of the frame. "A"? I can't comment on whether the numbers are correct for the date, but nothing scares me on the gun, if priced accordingly for its condition. I'm curious what the others say the stamping is on the left side ahead of the number. What is the asking price? dju

03-27-2016, 11:50 AM	#3
Flintlock2016 User Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 35 Thanks: 35 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Hi dju Thanks for your reply. The asking price is £750. John

03-27-2016, 12:13 PM	#5
Flintlock2016 User Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 35 Thanks: 35 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Yes, pounds sterling and deactivated.

03-27-2016, 12:27 PM	#7
guns3545 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 435 Thanks: 649 Thanked 490 Times in 216 Posts	John, Welcome to the Forum. This appears to be a well worn, but overtly honest 1936 Model P.08, the standard issue of the day to the German Armed Forces. The letter suffix is a "k' indicating it was made in Spring 1936 at the Mauser Factory in Oberndorf am Neckar. Somewhere along the way, it was proofed in the UK. The crossed swords and letters and initials indicate the Birmingham Proof House. More, I cannot say. Hope this helps, John

03-27-2016, 12:54 PM	#8
Flintlock2016 User Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 35 Thanks: 35 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks for your reply John. The Birmingham proof marks make sense, because I live in the UK and the gun is on sale here, having been deactivated in the uk. Cheers John

03-27-2016, 07:03 PM	#11
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I wonder if that stamping isn't a specific deactivation mark? If it were from a British proof house surely there would be a lot more stuff stamped here, there, and everywhere. Flintlock, we heard talk recently that the EU was cracking down on deactivated guns too. Anything to that? dju

03-27-2016, 07:20 PM	#12
Flintlock2016 User Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 35 Thanks: 35 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Dju From what I know when a weapon is deactivated in uk it only has the one stamp of the proof house that actually did the job. If a gun is proofed in the uk there are a lot more marks. On 8th. April this year, new deactivation rules come into force for every EU country. For pistols for example, it involves permanently fixing magazines in place and deactivating them. The new rules will be applied retrospectively, so any gun deactivated before 8th April but bought after that date will have to re-deactivated to comply with the new rules. John

03-28-2016, 09:55 AM	#16
Flintlock2016 User Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 35 Thanks: 35 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	hi Sergio and John Thanks for your comments about the date. As I said earlierI know nothing about Lugers so would you be able to explain your doubts so that I might learn. Thanks again John

03-28-2016, 10:41 AM	#17
guns3545 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 435 Thanks: 649 Thanked 490 Times in 216 Posts	John, This is one of those difficult situations where there is no substitute for having the gun in hand. First, a word about markings. Dates were rollmarked onto the chamber of the receiver. This process involved holding the piece firmly in a jig, and heavily rolling a die, shaped like a wheel across the surface thus impressing what was on the die into the metal. Hence rollmarking. This technique is used when the same mark must be impressed on many, many pieces; like the 100,000 or so Model P.08s Mauser would make in a year. Or the 10,000 suffixes in a block This contrasts with proof marks and serial numbers which were stamped with a die and a hammer. Hence each piece is individually stamped. Both hand stamping and rollmarking leave ridged edges and squarish corners. Neither removes metal; it displaces it. Alternatively you can use a rotary cutter and a pantograph to cut metal letters and numbers into the metal. And..since the tool is a rotary tool, it leaves curved corners. And metal is actually removed, not just displaced. Now, first the good news. The location and style of numbers on your pistol look correct. The chamber date in 1936 used slightly different fonts than 1937 and subsequent years. Later years were less squarish. This is why no red flags showed up for me the first time around. But, and this is a big but; the numbers look deep, and with magnification of your photo, the edges look a little off. Now.. it could just be the photo. But, you should take a good look at the chamber date especially taking note, seeking rounded corners. And, a square bottom, as the rotary tool had a square bottom whereas dies are slightly tapered and the depth of the number is slightly wedged shaped. This might indicate that the date was freshened up. That's about it. You may wish to browse the site searching for "1936 chamber marks". Or simply 1936. There should be chamber photos on the site. Or, alternatively, go to this site and you will see numerous examples of Lugers and their markings. Search the section entitled Mauser. http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=179 Hope it helps. John

03-28-2016, 11:49 AM	#18
Flintlock2016 User Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 35 Thanks: 35 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Many many thanks John. I would guess that would devalue the gun quite a lot? Glad I haven't bought it. John

03-28-2016, 12:17 PM	#20
Flintlock2016 User Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 35 Thanks: 35 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks again, dju. The gun I was considering looks nothing like that!