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04-13-2003, 11:40 PM | #1 |
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Mystery .45 cal. Luger Pistol...?
In John Walter's book, The Luger Story, on page 71; there is a photo of a .45 luger pistol. The gun's serial number is not mentioned.
The photo credit is given to a Mr. Joseph J. Schroeder. Does anyone know which .45 luger pistol this is/was ? Do I assume it belonged/belongs to a European collector (i.e. Mr. Schroeder) ? Is this .45 pistol another serial number, other than # 2 or the Norton Gallery pistol ? Might this be the serial # 5 that Michael Reese mentioned in his book, Luger Tips, that he personally held...? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" /> |
04-14-2003, 12:31 AM | #2 |
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Joe Schroeder isn't European, but a very well known and authoritative American collector and author. He has edited and published 5 editions of the "Collectors Digest" and written many articles. I don't know for certain, but I am willing to bet that the photo credited to him was of the Norton Luger since it clearly shows the Crown/N proof on the left receiver.
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04-14-2003, 07:30 AM | #3 |
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Mr Schroeder is very much an American and I think that he prefers Mannlichers. To my knowledge, there are only two .45 cal Lugers. A second one is in a museum in Shrievport, La. I doubt that it would be taken out of its museum case for pictures.
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04-14-2003, 09:40 AM | #4 |
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Joe S. is a life time Chicago area resident. In a past speach to the NAPCA convention, he mentioned draging his dad down to Marshall Fields to purchase his first auto loading pistols as a preteen. Some guys just know what they want at an earlier age than the rest of us. Tom H.
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04-15-2003, 10:43 PM | #5 |
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Thanks, all, for setting me straight on Mr. Schroeder.
J. Walter also mentions in his book a serial # 14 .45 luger pistol... Can anyone educate me on this # 14. Has it been subsequently determined not to be "real"... ? I am still haunted by Mr. John Allen (at Gun Blue Books, Inc.) telling me that three (3) .45 luger pistols are known...but he was not at liberty to state serial or owner name... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" /> |
04-25-2003, 01:44 PM | #6 |
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I beleieve that Mr Schroeder let one of the bigger trade mags (Guns & Ammo?) fire the gun to test its accuracy. It is allegedly 'priceless' because of its rarity. For anyone who thinks that it might take away from its value (they alluded to fact that it had not been fired before that) I think its uniqueness would win out.
Didn't someone do a limited run of special order .45 Lugers? For like $3000 each some few years ago? My thoguhts stray to Interarms, but they've been gone a while. Any ideas? |
04-25-2003, 02:30 PM | #7 |
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To the best of my knowledge...
Outside of custom John Martz work that converted two 9mm Lugers into one .45 ACP custom gun, there have been three post war producers of .45 Caliber Lugers... The first type is by the Mauserwerke in Oberndorf... but it doesn't look much like the original 1907 test guns... It looks like a 9mm Luger on steroids... and I think leans toward Swiss Luger styling...I believe only one gun was made in prototype and it was last known to be in the private collection of Rolf Gminder in Europe... Second, is Mike Krause... but the price is at least FIVE TIMES the $3000 mentioned earlier in this message thread... Here is a photo of Mike Krause's excellent work: and the last is a Gunsmith in Europe... I don't have the info about who or how much, but they were much like the Krause guns in that they are custom made and with a high price... These are photos from a European magazine article and unfortuately this is all the information I have on this series of pistols... If anyone has any more, I would appreciate knowing more details.
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04-25-2003, 05:59 PM | #8 |
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John, Yes, Mike Krause makes these excellent pistols. I understand the wait is several years tho...From a magazine article I read some years ago he also produces a baby in .380. I would love to have one but I am afraid I do not have an extra $fifteen grand laying about...I have to say, I do like the looks of Mikes pistol much better than the Mauser. Jerry Burney
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04-26-2003, 10:31 AM | #9 |
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I was in Sacramento last August visiting with the kids and also looking for Lugers. I visited with Gary Thiry on J street who runs a gun parts business to see if he had any decent magazines. We were talking about Lugers and he told me of a friend of his that had found a guy in Provo Utah that had an original .45 cal Luger and he was trying to get it away form him. I was surprised to hear this as it might be one of the few that exist. I had forgotten about it until this thread popped up. I'll try to contact Gary and see if he has any more info on this one.
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04-26-2003, 11:03 AM | #10 |
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Well, I called Gary. The friend of his that had the info followed up on it and it turned out to be one of those stories that had been passed down too many times and got better each time. The .45 in Provo doesn't exist, shame, it could have been a real treat if found to be true.
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05-06-2003, 11:11 PM | #11 |
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Hi, guys,
Can anyone jog my memory on the guy who made a couple of .45 Lugers using a regular 9mm frame, but getting the big round in the magazine well by dispensing with the detachable magazine and using a system like the 1911 Steyr Hahn. No, clips, though, it just loaded by pushing the rounds in from the top. I don't know how/if it really worked, but one of the gunmags wrote it up as the greatest invention since the light bulb. Jim |
05-06-2003, 11:32 PM | #12 |
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Wyatt is the man or at least the gun, I believe is what you are talking about. One of the forum members has one for sale on his site, also I know that Ralph Shattuck had one for sale last year for $2,000 I think. Was pretty cool looking, big bore, you loaded it from the top.
Ed
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05-07-2003, 08:46 AM | #13 |
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Spoke to Mike Krause recently about this thread. He says the wait for one of his 45's is 6 months, not "years", the cost is $15000, with case, cleaning rod, and extra clip $2500 extra.
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05-07-2003, 10:36 AM | #14 |
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Herb,
I wonder how many of those custom .45 Lugers Mike has made? You should invite Mike Krause to join the Lugerforum...the next time you speak with him. and thank him for his clarification on costs and waiting time.
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05-14-2003, 11:10 PM | #15 |
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I have serial number 10!
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06-16-2003, 12:33 PM | #16 |
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Gents, I'd very much appreciate any input on how Mr Krause makes his .45 Lugers. Does he make them with new parts or does he use some original ones (if so, how many?)? Thanks. ?lvaro.
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06-16-2003, 01:35 PM | #17 |
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Alvaro , he makes them from scratch, rumour has it that he was able to get the dimensions from one of the orginals and "copy" it. Very cool.
Douglas, do you shoot her at all? And if so, how good does she shoot? Ed
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06-16-2003, 06:42 PM | #18 |
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Thanks a lot, Ed. That copy bussiness had to be mind boggling; hundreds of exact measurements!. At first I thought the 15k bucks price was insane, but now I'm beginnig to think perhaps it is not. What I am now wondering is what the point of owning such a thing would be... ?lvaro.
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06-16-2003, 07:57 PM | #19 |
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Yes, I can't imagine! One of those is high on my list if I win the lottery.
A John Martz 45's (made from two 9mm's) go from about $4,000 - $6,000 (and I am sure up), but one of them is high on my lotto list too! Ed
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06-16-2003, 08:35 PM | #20 |
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Guys,
You ain't gonna win the lottery, but you can ALWAYS get more money. Sell some trinkets, drink cheaper booze, suck up to the boss for a raise and GO FOR IT! Tom A. |
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