My First Luger-Pattern Pistol - Interarms Mauser

[rsdeke]

Hello Guys,

Today I purchased an Interarms Mauser from a private collector here in Michigan. I am new to this site and this is my first Luger-pattern pistol. I just wanted to express my gratitude to the members and founders of this site because it was such an important source of detailed information for me. Without this site, I would never have felt informed enough to purchase one.

The pistol has a six inch barrel installed on the gun and came with a matching serial number four inch barrel. It had three magazines, two large boxes white and blue boxes, four pamphlets, and six targets (seems strange because all the numbers are different). Here are the links to the pictures in case anyone is interested in seeing it.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3311/...48b9cd95_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3614/...12acb78a_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3379/...5446551a_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3407/...4d0a4bca_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3329/...7e4f8234_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2471/...316e3878_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3340/...61b5c48d_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3547/...c4c7ea3f_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3611/...b0884d9a_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3321/...4bac1c8e_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2453/...f39a968f_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3406/...6c804c2c_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2431/...b25f4209_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2444/...a3f7829f_b.jpg

[rolandtg]

Very nice acquisition.
Congratulations!
The dual barrels are a nice "feature".

And someone here will very likely ask you to please upload the pictures to this site because some members can't view remotely linked images.

[Vlim]

Congrats,

You have a very rare set. The original pistol is 9mm with the 4" barrel (note the serial number starting with '11'. At a certain point, the owner ordered an extra 6" barrel from the factory, which was numbered 'E14' (E for 'Ersatz' or 'Replacement') and 14 to note that it is a 9mm version.

The boxes are for later pistols, as are the test targets. The serial numbers on the targets and the boxes should match those of the pistols. But they are a nice bonus indeed!


The pistol has been commercially proofed in Germany, and was originally intended for the European market. It was made in 1972.

[Ice]

That is a very nice set and the dual barrels are highly desirable. You couldn't have done better for your first modern Luger. Congratulations!

Charlie

[FNorm]

I just bought the cousin to this piece, Sr no, 11 013728. Interesting the differences between it and the pre-1945 lugers.

The takedown lever has a little wedge or ramp on the frame to ensure a tight fit. The trigger lever hinge pin is totally different. It runs the whole length of the side plate. The is a small hole inside that plate for an extended trigger hinge pin. I got the P.08 frame. The sear spring button has a beveled rim. The upper trigger bar pad is polished. The frame under the grips has a small pin that extends into the grips, making them more difficult to remove. The magazines have a round coil spring. The back of the sear bar is cut differently with a downward angle to it. The ejector is mounted a bit differently, no slot in the frame for removal, and the tooth that extends into the chamber is bigger.

I discovered a broken firing pin, but the seller has promised a new one.

This is what I've noted so far. All-in-all a good piece, some improvements, but not up the the workmanship of the older lugers.

FN

[Vlim]

Norm,

You will find that the Postwar Mauser Parabellum shares more features with the Swiss 06/29 than with the older German ones.

Even in the 1970s nobody could afford to build a marketable pre-1945 version of the luger. That is why the new Mauser design was based on the Swiss 1929 model, which was already a more cost effictive version to start with.

[FNorm]

Oh. and the trigger spring is different. Longer and weaker.

One question. The test target that came with mine has a number that is nowhere near the pistol serial number. Nice grouping though...

FN

[rsdeke]

Thank you Gentlemen for all the important information specific to this model, I really appreciate it. It sounds like I could have done worse in my first purchase and would have without this resource. Also, I will post my pictures to the site as well as soon as I get some more time. I am already entertaining the idea of getting an original, I can see where this hobby has the potential to become habit forming - I'll have to be careful. Thanks again guys.

[FNorm]

rsdeke: run like HELL. It's an addiction!!!

FN

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Vlim

Norm,

You will find that the Postwar Mauser Parabellum shares more features with the Swiss 06/29 than with the older German ones.

Even in the 1970s nobody could afford to build a marketable pre-1945 version of the luger. That is why the new Mauser design was based on the Swiss 1929 model, which was already a more cost effictive version to start with.

Vlim:

I've always questioned this assumption, as looking at the two pistols reveals only slight differences.

The fact that Mauser went cheap with the 06/29 design and not the WWII byf configuration, cost them the entire market.

Frankly, with original German Lugers selling here for just over $100.00 in the early 1970, was there a market for a new product in the first place. Obviously, the public thought not.

Though I have quite a collection of the Interarms Mausers, I really don't find them as appealing to shoot as the originals for several reasons, the chief of which is the grip safty and the thick grips.

Sieger

[Vlim]

Siieger,

The Swiss 06/29 lineage of the postwar Mauser is not an assumption. It's a fact.
If Mauser had used the pre-1945 approach the entire project would have been too expensive, making it a complete impossibility in the first place. The P08 required machining steps that were superflous, overly complicated and in some aspects completely idiotic

The market was indeed a problem, although there was one, you are correct to say that it was difficult (nearly impossible) to compete against the surplus Luger market in the USA. The fact that Mauser stuck to some Swiss visual design aspects certainly didn't help.

But that was the choice they had to make: Redesign and use the 06/29 pattern and be somewhat competetive, or don't do it at all. There was no inbetween. The grip safety wasn't a choice, it was a requirement, although shortening it wasn't a good idea. The Swiss longer safety is more ergonomic (won't bite as much)

The thick grips were rectified at a later date, although they never got near the feel of the old ones. Indeed a change they should have made when they had the chance.

[A.Mifsin]

"If Mauser had used the pre-1945 approach the entire project would have been too expensive, making it a complete impossibility in the first place. The P08 required machining steps that were superflous, overly complicated and in some aspects completely "

Vlim, having said that, is it really that differnt in production, because as Sieger said visually the difference is very little,which as you said, if I understood correctly made a lot of differnt in the cost of manufacture.if the cost was not down by half, it is my opion that it was not worth the risk to change the model.

Alf.

[rsdeke]

Photo album now uploaded to the lugerforums. Links listed below.
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=513
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=514
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=515
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=516
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=517
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=518
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=519
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=520
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=521
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=522
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=523
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=540
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=541
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=542
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=543
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=545
http://forum.lugerforum.com/picture....&pictureid=546

[mauro]

Hi Ross,
Nice set!
This is the second time I see a Mauser Parabellum with a extra barrel properly numbered (E...). I have in my collection a spare barrel in .30 luger.

You can also find some more photos and info in my web site where I have set up several pages about the Mauser Parabellum production.

Have fun,
Mauro

[FNorm]

correction om my post. My blue and white box, and the test target ARE number to the pistol. what I took as a 7 is 1!

New Question: Comparing mine to rsdeke's, I have an American Eagle on the chamber. All else is the same. Any significance to that?

FN

[Lugerdoc]

Norm et al, In addition to the cleaning rod, mag tool and mags that you asked about, I do have new original 7.65 & 9mm test targets (not fired into) available @$1 each (less in quantity of 10 or more) and 2x3 inch Mauser Banner decals @50 cents each. Finally, I have most new original Mauser Parabellum part (the Interarms stock) available, except frames, receivers, barrels & grips. TH

[Vlim]

Alf, yes, production differed greatly. You have to take into account that the luger pistol was designed and built around machinery that was available around 1900. Labour was cheap and companies could afford to have hundreds of people working on the tiniest of parts for very basic wages.

In the 1960s Germany was rapidly becoming one of the most expensive production companies in Europe, hourly worker rates were expensive. The old P08 required some 750 - 800 machining steps, quality control sessions that bordered on insanity, with rooms full of women checking every production step against a pile of gauges (even something as basic as the sideplate went through at least 7 quality control steps).

The only way Mauser could afford to take the Parabellum into production was to rethink, re-engineer and optimize the process as much as they could. That is the reason why the Mauser Parabellum is not a 'clone' or a 'copy', it was the next level in luger engineering, dragging and kicking then 70-year old design into a new era. Their quality control measures were so good, that they managed to skip the in-the-white assembly alltogether. In the old days, this was needed to match all small parts together, making final adjustments before finishing the pistol.

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Vlim

The only way Mauser could afford to take the Parabellum into production was to rethink, re-engineer and optimize the process as much as they could. That is the reason why the Mauser Parabellum is not a 'clone' or a 'copy', it was the next level in luger engineering, dragging and kicking then 70-year old design into a new era. Their quality control measures were so good, that they managed to skip the in-the-white assembly alltogether. In the old days, this was needed to match all small parts together, making final adjustments before finishing the pistol.

Vlim:

You are probbly right about the Germans in the 1970. Why Cummings didn't take a byf 41 to Japan, I dont know.

Please comment on the new Krieghoff Luger.

Sieger

[Vlim]

Hi Sieger,

Thank God he didn't. A Japanese luger has all the hallmarks of a Japanese car. It's good, but as exciting as a 90-year old virgin.

Still working on the Krieghoff. The company does not respond to my inquiries so I haven't had the chance to study one in the flesh. I think the price tag is way too high, but I do admire the fact that they had the guts to recreate the pistol. If they had managed to price it in the 1000 - 1500 dollar range, they would have had a winner. But here again, production costs probably went through the roof.

I hope I get the chance to examine and test one in the near future. There is something unsettling about running a few boxes of S&B through a 15,000 dollar pistol, though...

[Ron Wood]

"Unsettling" puts it mildly! I would be like a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.