Pair of WW1 Lugers

[Monkeyman]

I am not a Luger collector but I do collect WW1 and WW2 military rifles and handguns. I recently aquired a pair of 1914 dated WW1 lugers - an artillery model s/n 52xx and a military model s/n 88xx. These were both war trophies. They are both matching guns (not magazines but mags are correct type) in 80% condition with excellent bores. My question is this: can I shoot these guns without risk of breaking anything and reducing the value? I have some low-powered Magtech 115gr FMJ range ammo I was thinking of using. What would they be worth as a pair? Thanks!

[tom]

Hi Greg,


In 80% condition, your guns have very little collector interest; you should feel free to shoot them once they have been checked out for mechanical safe operation by a competent smith.


If they are in fact safe to shoot, and most all are, you should NOT use a light load. Lugers function best with a slightly hotter load than that which is normally available from the major ammunition manufacturers.


If they are safe to shoot, they will feed and function much better with a "stout" load.


Value for the pair is tough without seeing them; I'd guess the standard military at about $450; the Arty about $675-700, if you could find someone interested in buying guns in that condition. I might suggest you consider them as candidates for restoration. Fellow list member Thor (Ted Green) does an excellent job at making old warhorses look like new ponies...


My 2 cents..


Tom

I would place the value of the P08 around $600 and the LP08 around $900-1000 in my region of the country (and I am a bit conservative). If you shoot them, put replacement grips on them for shooting. These are cheap at less than $30 a pair and you can use one pair for both guns. Be careful not to chip or crack the grips when switching them. The original grips are worth a lot and are very fragile after 85 years. The right grip has a very thin rib inside and this will split and break easily (try wiggling the right grip on any old luger and you can quickly tell if the owner has blasted away with the gun a bunch). The left grip often chips around the safety or mag release button.


The firing pin tip is also vulnerable as are some other parts. If you break one original part, it will knock $150 (the P08) to $300 (the LP08) off the value of the piece. Using a replacement part or two will substantially reduce this risk to the guns' values.


Are these Erfurt or DWM pistols? Are there unit marks on the grip straps? Were there reworked after WW1? Those points might influence value some.

[miner]

Some folks may turn their nose up on 80% finish, matching lugers today, but many would love to add these to their collections. No way would I consider (or advise) refinishing a matching 80% luger...especially the arty!

[Big Norm]

be careful here. Not all WW1 Lugers are created equal. Some are more scarce as others and just saying they are 80% is not good enough of a description. Collecting Lugers is pretty much the same as collection coins. Not all silver dollars are worth the same. What are the dates? Who manufactured the guns or minted the coins? Do the Lugers have any pitting? I once had an Erfurt artillery with zero bluing but no pitting. It was stored in an attic for a long time and had a light freckling rust on it that after removing the rust left no bluing. Just saying 80% bluing does not say much. One mans 80% is anothers 60% and anothers 90%. Its a judgement call.


There are, in fact, some good restorers out there but if you have a scarce Luger then having it restored will dramatically reduce the value of that Luger. Collectors are the people who pay the big bucks and they do not want restored guns and most certainly will not pay big bucks for them. I recently bought a Erfurt artillery with what you may be calling an 80% bluing but it had a good bore, crisp proof marks matching mag and stock. I will not restore that gun.


If you have original grips and magazines then remove them and do not use them. Buy repros and use them. They have value but be careful in removing the left hand side grip. It can break off at the safety area. On the magazines, the button on the side can break and ruin the value. The magazines value can also be deminished if you put nicks in the wood or breaking the wood. Both are possible.


Shooting the luger is subjective. Shooting a few rounds will do no damage to it. But shooting a thousand rounds a week will wear out the bore. But in any case, you should used a hotter load in order for the mechanism to work properly. Many indoor ranges require a lighter load to protect their buildings. A local indoor range here in Michigan required that I use their ammo and I spent more time unjamming my gun than I spent shooting. But the Luger will frequently jam with a lighter load.

Big Norm

[Johnny Peppers]

I have to agree. If the Lugers now have 80% original finish, they are nice enough for anyone to collect. After refinish they are 0% original finish. The LP08 is an extremely hard pistol to find with a 1914 date, with the DWM being the hardest to find. Also the 4" Erfurt 1914 date is a hard pistol to find.

[Kyrie]

Hi Monkeyman,


Value is really impossible to estimate without knowing more. The 80% remaining finish will hurt their value, but all original (except the magazine) Lugers generally retain some collector value down to about 60%. And a DWM 1914 Artillery is actually a fairly rare Luger.


To answer your other question concerning the ability to shoot them without risk of breaking a part, Iâ??m afraid the answer is a flat â??No.â?� Pistols this old, with an unknown amount of prior use/abuse, may break parts when fired. If you want to maintain their value (and the 1914 Arty in particular is going to do nothing but appreciate!) my best advice is treat them gently and donâ??t even think of shooting them.


Hope this helps!


Best regards,


Kyrie

[Joe]

I agree that neither of these Lugers should be fired. If a number part or the grips break then there is a problem. I also do agree that these guns should NOT be restored as they will lose any collector value. It would be interesting to know their manufacturer and if they have unit marks. I have a 1917 arty with little bluing, that is unit marked. Very few from that year have those markings.

I will chime in and say that at 80%, these have collectible value well beyond a 0% finish (reblued/restored) luger. Another way to say it is that for $150 to $800 you can restore each luger to a condition that has about 60% of its current unrestored value. As they say, it is a no-brainer.

HECK YES AN 80% LUGER IS COLLECTABLE. I HAVE SOME THAT I LOVE IN 70% CONDITION AND ONE I SHOOT IN LESSER CONDITION THAN THAT THAT I WOULD'NT TRADE FOR A CARTRIDGE COUNTER!(OK YES I WOULD) A GOOD RULE OF THUMB THAT I USE AS WELL AS ANY OTHER COLLECTOR WORTHY OF HIS SALT IS. #1 IT'S NOT MY GUN UNTIL I DECIDE TO BUY IT AND HAVE TRANSFERRED OWNERSHIP. #2 THE PERSON WHO OWNS IT CAN CHARGE WHAT EVER HE WANTS FOR IT, BECAUSE VALUE IS INFINATELY VARIABLE. #3 I CAN CHOOSE TO BUY IT OR LEAVE IT WITH IT'S PRESENT OWNER BY SAYING POLITELY "NO THANK YOU" #4 I WOULD NEVER IN TEN MILLION YEARS RESTORE AN 80% CONDITION WEPON, AS ONE PERSON RESPONDED SO ELIQUINTLY TO MY PREVIOUS POSTING; YOU TAKE AN 80% WEPON REFINISH IT AND IT BECOMES A WEPON WITH 0% ORIGINAL FINNISH WORTH AT LEAST 80% LESS THAN IT WAS BEFORE THE HATCHET JOB. I WOULD RATHER HAVE AN 80% IMPERIAL MARKED 1918 DWM LUGER, THAN A 95% 1920 COMMERCIAL LUGER. MY ADVICE IS FOLLOW YOUR GUT, TOO MANY LUGERS ARE OUT THERE THAT HAVE BEEN REFINNISHED AND PASSED OFF AS 98% SPECIMENS BUYER BE WARE? I DON'T THINK SO! WE AS FELLOW COLLECTORS NEED TO HAVE A SPECIFIC LUGER ORGANIZATION DEDICATED TO THE HOBBYS SURVIVAL,A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE CAN SHARE IDEAS AND QUERRYS. I'M GUILTY OF THIS ALSO, BUT WE NEED TO BE A LITTLE LESS AROGANT IN OUR ACTIONS OR NEW PEOPLE WILL BE TURNED OFF FAST.


TIM(YES I KNOW I'M SHOUTING)

I agree with your points. I especially want to echo your comment regarding arrogance. Arrogance will turn off new luger collectors and historians. It is a weakness that plagues too many collector groups. I want to welcome new folk and don't care if the same basic question is answered 100 times. In the long run, polite helpful attitudes will help the group and every collector.