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Unread 10-25-2020, 09:19 PM   #1
RWBlue01
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Default Failure to go into battery every time

First Luger P08. First post here. Gun guy who usually fixes my own issues. This one has me stumped.

I have a 1940 P08 Army Mauser, not all the numbers match, but most.

When I try to cycle rounds (shooting or hand cycling), the toggle doesn't go all the way down some of the time. Out of battery, 1/4 inch. I smack down the top and it s good to go.

I posted on a gunsmthing forum and they gave me the standard advice. New Megar mag, new Wolff Spring, clean and lube. Well, I already bought those.

Swapped out the spring to Wolff heaviest in the pack. Shoot again. It locks back on empty mag.
Still having same issues.

So I have been hand cycling live rounds (wolf, PMC, Remington, Winchester Silver tip, spear gold dot), dummy rounds, German blue plastic rounds, trying to debug, but....
All seem to have issues when hand cycling, except the blue plastic ones. But after I hand cycle a couple times, I swear they feed more often.

Is this just ammo issue OR....????






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Unread 10-25-2020, 09:47 PM   #2
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Could be, singly or in combination:
-Dirty or damaged chamber, or something stuck in there
-striker spring too strong
-since it is not matching, headspace may be tight
-bent rails or other friction slowing down return to battery- you should not have any problem
hand cycling, but take out the striker. If the problem goes away- you know what it was/is.
If not it is much safer!
-bent or too strong ejector
-too strong or long extractor spring, or stuck extractor

Need any more ideas?

Welcome to the board.
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Unread 10-26-2020, 01:41 PM   #3
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Also be sure when hand cycling to have the action pulled completely open and let it go so that it snaps shut--no lowering of the toggle knobs. The recoil spring imparts less force the closer it is to battery and depends on the momentum established by allowing the fully extended action to close sharply.
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Unread 10-26-2020, 03:53 PM   #4
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I recently had the exact same problem and traced the issue to the extractor, it was aftermarket. Installing an original extractor instantly fixed it.

I'd suggest you tell us which parts are matching/supply some photos. You never know, some guns have been fixed when photos were posted.

Don's advice is excellent. Things must of course eventually be tested at the range but I use inert rounds as much as possible.

Fixing Lugers is much easier when you can swap parts with or inspect a correctly functioning example. You might disclose your location, perhaps there is a member near. Most gunsmiths don't know Lugers, you are typically on your own to fix them.
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Unread 10-27-2020, 12:27 AM   #5
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Unread 10-27-2020, 12:45 AM   #6
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A few things immediately look a bit curious on your photos:

There seems to be a beveled or recessed area on the breech bolt on each side of the extractor near the top front of the breech bolt. This area should not be recessed, someone has done some work.

The extractor should be a numbered part on a byf, with the number visible on top. This extractor is not original to the pistol.

The side of the ejector visible on the outside of the gun should have a uniform appearance. This ejector has some surface issue at front - I can't tell what it is but it doesn't look right. If you compare the right side of your pistol to photos of other pistols you'll see what I mean. I'm wondering if there is a weld.

I'd suggest remove the extractor and ejector and post detailed photos of those parts and the front of the breech bolt from several angles.
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Unread 10-27-2020, 01:12 AM   #7
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https://www.gunpartscorp.com/gun-man...rer/luger/p-08

Removed striker assembly (part 22, 23, 24),
Remington had one issue (high probability it was me)
PMC still sucks. I think it is worse.

Chamber looks good.

I have racked this enough times, if the frame rails or toggle was too tight, I think I would see wear.

Barrel looks original (correct serial number, and the mark on bottom). Being that everything locks up, some of the time, I think the chamber isn't too tight. But I didn't pick up any brass...
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Unread 10-27-2020, 01:15 AM   #8
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And I typed the above, but forgot to sent.

Continued to play with it... Now the remington isn't causing me any issues. I wish I was somewhere I could shoot a few rounds. Or knew someone with another one so I could see one which works.

PMC still sucks.

Last edited by RWBlue01; 10-27-2020 at 02:33 AM.
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Unread 10-27-2020, 08:27 AM   #9
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Default I'll fix it!

Hi RWBlue01, well, I have a suggestion, send it to me, (the top half)and I'll fix and test it! The breechblock is broken at the extractor relief, and I would bet that the receiver is causing some restriction under firing that is delaying or buffering the toggle train under dynamic stress.... It will NEVER wear in! I have a ton of parts, and several test frames to work with... At the very least i can verify and correct if necessary, any problems with the top half?... If you wish to see my references, just search GT or GT Specialties on this forum?... I will do this service for reasonable cost for the parts only, no labor!... My email address is: gctomeks@msn.com Let me know..... best, til....lat'r.....GT...
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Unread 10-27-2020, 09:27 AM   #10
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RWBlue01, if G.T, is offering to assist you, run don't walk to your nearest shipper and let him at it. He is a wizard at fixing Lugers and a real pleasure to deal with. He's helped me with numerous issues, I have yet to send him something he couldn't fix.
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Unread 10-27-2020, 10:24 AM   #11
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I second G.T. and his fine work. He'll get your Luger straightened out and working correctly.
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Unread 10-27-2020, 12:14 PM   #12
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You will get no better shooter than one
GT has fixed. Take him upon his offer
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Unread 10-27-2020, 02:02 PM   #13
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You should replace the damaged breechblock. the missing areas serve to retain and limit
motion of the extractor and are a likely source of your problem.

Breechblocks are not inexpensive, but important for function and safety.

GT can do this for you.
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Unread 10-27-2020, 04:25 PM   #14
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I am a little hard headed when it comes to fixing my own guns. I bought it specifically because it isn't a Browning derivative (different). I want to take it to the range one more time before giving up.

Remington continues to feed.
Wolf Classic doesn't.
Wolf Performance doesn't
I know I have some Winchester white box around, but can't find it.

I played with the extractor. It seems to move freely.

Any other ideas?

If I can't get it to work...
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Unread 10-27-2020, 06:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DonVoigt View Post
You should replace the damaged breechblock. the missing areas serve to retain and limit
motion of the extractor and are a likely source of your problem.

Breechblocks are not inexpensive, but important for function and safety.

GT can do this for you.
100% agree DV .... A long shot but make sure you have a fluted firing pin ... The non fluted is original, due to primer rupture and blow back that would destroy the firing pin and sometimes the toggle. They replaced them with a fluted pin that has a grove to allow gas to escape and this might have accounted for the original breech block damage if it occurred.
And having Dr.GT look @ it is an offer too good to refuse in my book .... good luck M8
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Unread 10-27-2020, 08:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spangy View Post
100% agree DV .... A long shot but make sure you have a fluted firing pin ... The non fluted is original, due to primer rupture and blow back that would destroy the firing pin and sometimes the toggle. They replaced them with a fluted pin that has a grove to allow gas to escape and this might have accounted for the original breech block damage if it occurred.
And having Dr.GT look @ it is an offer too good to refuse in my book .... good luck M8
I have the flutted firing pin. Thanks

All this taking apart and putting together, I have gone from 15 minutes to less than 5. I feel like I should be speaking german.
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Unread 10-27-2020, 09:10 PM   #17
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Sie sind ein ausgezeichneter Büchsenmacher und Mitglied Herr RWBlue01
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Unread 10-27-2020, 09:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBlue01 View Post
I am a little hard headed when it comes to fixing my own guns...
I respect this view, I have it myself. However when I started collecting Lugers and shooting them, I quickly learned that the pistol is unique with a learning curve to fixing them, and expert help (sending parts or the whole pistol off) is required at times.

If GT deals with you the way he deals with me, he'll advise exactly what he found, you will learn a lot and be in a better position to fix the next issue yourself. I have now been able to fix several Lugers, and could not have done that without the help of GT/others.
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Unread 10-27-2020, 10:59 PM   #19
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The Luger is a very different handgun. It's action depends on a balanced design, and many of the things that can affect it are hidden from view. Even if you're quite skilled at working on firearms, you'll find the Luger particularly challenging.

Only a very few gunsmiths have the skill to work on Lugers competently. Gerald is one of them.

His offer is generous. You will likely be quite frustrated by the time you decide to take him up on it, or - you could sleep on it and get things packaged up tomorrow.
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Unread 10-29-2020, 02:50 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spangy View Post
They replaced them with a fluted pin that has a grove to allow gas to escape and this might have accounted for the original breech block damage if it occurred.
And having Dr.GT look @ it is an offer too good to refuse in my book .... good luck M8
Sprangy,
That is not the original or intended purpose of the grooves, they are there to collect gunk, dirt, trash and allow the striker to still function.
It is however often repeated "common knowledge" that is just not accurate.

This subject has been the focus of several threads, but if one simply observes the location and extent of the grooves, it is clear that there is nowhere for any trapped gas to go, even with the striker to its full rear position.
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