Absolute ignorant

[ronin]

Hi guys,

I don't know the first thing about Lugers, the only thing I can tell you is that eventually i'll have one.

I live in Argentina, the whole country is flat broke and so am I. I'm a shooter (when i can spare the money for the ammo) and in better and past times i got very fond of HK handguns - i currently own 6 of them (P7M13, P9S, Mark 23 and 3 USPs).

I've always loved the Luger and i'm seriously thinking on getting one, i'm certain that i'll want something that i can occasinally shoot but for that i'll need the proper coaching from you guys and if possible, to be able to submit to you what is available in these parts so you can tell me what they're worth and how to get them in shooting conditions. I've always heard that the Luger has difficulty feeding ammo.

I'm here to learn, willing and damned ready. In the meantime, i'll try to find the doe to make my new pet project come true.

Thanks to you all in advance, <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

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[Thor]

Welcome Ronin, you certainly came to the right place! <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

[John Sabato]

welcome to the Lugerforum Ronin... There is much to learn here. Not a day passes that I don't learn something new about Lugers, and I have been studying them for over 40 years...

Visit often.

[Roadkill]

[Herb]

Dang RK, you make your point with the fewest words of anyone I know. ROTFLMAO.

[John Sabato]

Herb, there is a Graemlin for ROTFLMAO

It looks like this: <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

[Roadkill]

Ya'll give me a break, OK? I just finally did what everyone has always wanted: just kept my mouth shut. (I love the "edit" option. How many times have you written something you wish you would not have?)

RK

[Thor]

Hey RK, I always enjoy your posts!

[ronin]

Thank you all for the welcome. I�´m really moved by Roadkill, he does know his way with words. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

First thing id�´like to know is if it is realistic to want to get a 9mm shooter, all i�´ve heard south of the Rio Grande is that the Luger is a terrible feeder and that regular 9mm ammo might turn the gun into a permanent ugly feature in my forehead.

How much of that is true?

I have very limited resources and for all i know the Magtech (brazilian) ammo is the one Ã?Â*Ã?´m more likely to use if i ever get a shooter (wimpiest).

Not really into the civilian/military part of the equation yet, only want a 9mm so far. I�´d love any pointers you might want ot volunteer regarding modifications i might want to consider to make the gun more reliable and safe. I�´ve only heard good things of the Wolf springs but that was for more modern guns, seems to me that they�´re also liked here.

Please do tell where to start, any thing you might want to send me directly to my email, please do so.

Thank you all in advance.

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[wterrell]

Ronin,

The Luger P08 9mm is the most finely engineered handgun to have ever been mass produced and was tested and approved by more military departments of countries than any other pistol on the face of the earth. Anyone who would argue against the P08 for quality and engineering is merely trying to be the 'Fountain of All Knowledge' by gainsaying and 'one-up-manship'. (Were the negative statements against the P08 in print?) There will not be any problems with feed if you purchase good quality ammo imported from the USA.

No modifications needed to a P08. It will not come apart with good ammo. Do not worry. You have been listening to the wrong people. (They also probably offered to sell you a "reliable" handgun.)

If you use reloads, make sure that you are the one who reloaded the casing and not a 'buddy'.

[ronin]

Thanks Wes for your advise. <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

I do know that the Luger was/is an excellent piece of engineering, what did give some ground to the fear of a kb is the undeniable fact that the pressures expected from the original 9mm rounds and what is common today MIGHT (this coming from the totally uneducated, that�´d be me) be a world apart. Also materials (the metal composition) has changed enormously, so has their properties.

Once again, all this from a total and absolute certified ignorant.

BTW, as stated before, i�´m a lover and admirer of german handgun engineering. My HK handguns testify to that.

Your arguments, let�´s call them undeniable facts, are historically obvious. I�´ve been misled and credulous, do forgive me. This is why i humbly came to thy, to be enlighted by the knowledgeable ones.

As you can see, i also have my way with words.

Unfortunately, my current monthly income is the equivalent of just ten boxes of 40SW ammo, that�´s why i was asking about the Magtech (brazilian) ammo, because it does feel mild and i hope that it might be more affordable to me that the US imported ones. Right now, my HKP7M13 is on a starving diet <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

Thank you very much.

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[Roadkill]

My first comment is to your excellent command of English, colloquial expressions are very difficult to use if its not your native language. Secondly, the military ammo probably would work. Its just a matter of matching recoil to mainspring strength,you will know the mainspring is too weak when the toggle doesn't close. I have one Luger and don't plan on getting another unless the deal of the century appears or I trade the one in I have, so don't feel deprived, I only have one more than you do and haven't had it long. I'd be interested in knowing what kind of firearms, especially military, are available there and how you obtain them. And as far as the economic situation, you've described Alabama well and we always get along somehow. You will too.

RK

[wterrell]

Ronin,
The milder the load, the less likely that the action of the Luger will operate. The heat of a load is what will make the toggle operate fully. Modern ammunition has nothing to do with it. If you wish to cling to the idea that the Luger needs modification, then have at it.

And, as you have probably figured out, I have no subtly of words. You asked for an opinion, and I gave it.

[ronin]

Wes,

No criticism whatsoever regarding your opinion, on the contrary, i'm absolutely listening to what you're saying and it does much more sense than what i thought to be the gospel on ancient firearms.
As a matter of fact, i've never thought much about it and that kind of nonsense stuff i've been hearing and picking up since early in my youth (not that i'm and old fart yet but slowly getting there.

The nationally manufactured armed forces loads are dissed by most. The Military Manufacture (Fabricaciones Militares or FM)sell the 9mm ammo for handguns and those for SMG with no discrimination (same packaging) and you would rather not feed SMG rounds to your beloved pistol if you can avoid it.

Roadkill,(off topic)

If i told you that after learning the basics at school i'm mostly self-thought and i picked most of my english (good and bad) reading Penthouse Magazine since the age of 12, would you believe me? <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />

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[Jerry Harris]

Ronin,
Let me step in while Roadkill is away for a moment (I promise to stay off topic). In the spirit of Prof. Henry Higgins, I'd have sworn that English is your native tongue and you just accidentally got teleported to Argentina. In case you're not kidding, you got a lot more out of Penthouse than anyone I've encountered (self included). [img]wink.gif[/img]

[ronin]

Thanks again for the extremely warm welcome!

(remaining off topic)

Yes, it is true. I got the basics at school and the rest was picking up magazines and carrying on by myself. I read a little MAD upgraded to another one i can't recall right now, same vein, then a brief stunt with Playboy and settled with Penthouse before start adventuring with my first novels. None of my friends have fared so well.

Guess there are two secrets to it, first: i'm gifted when it comes to languages (downside is i'm a total idiot when it comes to numbers, see them and my brain goes numb). The other more important secret is that you pick a subject of your interest and pursue it with your best shot, you'll learn a lot while doing it and without noticing or maybe without concentrating so much on the actual effort you make in your quest.

As mentioned above, i know plenty of expressions that i've picked along the way. I love them, since most expressions in english come from different lines of thought or images than the ones familiar to me.

I'm having a ton of fun with you lot <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

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[tracyp]

Ronin:

What are laws for owning firearms in Argentina? I was in Buenos Aires in April and I guess several police and security guards have been shot lately. All of the police and most of the security guard wore protective vests.

Anyway, I thought it was illegal for the general public to own handguns.

Welcome to the forum.

Tracy

[ronin]

This is getting out of hand, please John (Sabato) forgive me/us for going astray and staying out of topic for so long but i guess it�´s kind of polite to say hi to everyone and eventually exchange a few words with everyone.

I�´ll try to answer a few questions that have been asked before regarding service weapons in my country.

Most armed forces now carry the local version of the Browning Hi Power (9mm). There are a few groups armed with Glocks and maybe a few Sigs but those are for special operators and not guns you might see on uniformed personnel. The 1911s (called 1927s) have been retired a few years ago, there still available for a few bucks for the general public. Both the 1911 and the BHP were originally bought from Colt and FN then licensed and manufactured here to the original specs. Somewhere along the road said licenses expired and the products became clones as in the current production of BHP (called FMs for Fabricaciones Militares - Military Manufactures). You�´re probably familiar with our exported and famous "Sistemas", the Ballester Molinas and Ballester Rigauds. The ones i�´ve seen in your pics look in better shape than the ones available here.

Shotgunwise, i guess they carry old Ithacas and God knows what else. SMG are old thingies, probably very unsafe, i�´ll get back to you on that issue. Police do not use carbines. Armed Forces still use FALs, they stopped manufacturing them in �´81 but those poor things will just not fade into the night.

Tracy, if you ever need to come back here please get in touch with me. I just love to make new friends f2f. I just came back from my 2nd trip to Sigarms Academy after a very succesful last year f2f encounter with a friend i made in another board that offered me board and breakfast, gun and eternal friendship when i first ventured to NH, seeking knowledge and fun.

To answer your question, we�´ve had some scary days and crime is on the rise, no surprise if you consider our terrible social crisis. Six months ago i was earning 3 grand a month, nowadays i barely make 3 hundred. My customers have dissapeared, no longer exist.

Civilians are, just like most of you, allowed to own and also carry guns. I�´m a licensed owner and also a licensed carrier (not the same thing or application and conditions are more strict for the later). There�´s no cooling period but for each weapon an id card is issued to your name and registered in your file. When you sell the gun you turn in the id card and a new one is issued to the new owner.

We have a strict ban on semiauto rifles, autos are absolute no-nos but there is no 10 rds limit for magazines.

Hope that takes care of most of your inquiries.

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[John Sabato]

Ronin,

There is no problem with your conversation about gun ownership in Argentina... It is not really that far off topic.

Luger ownership is ON-Topic!

&lt;previous message content deleted as off-topic&gt;

[John Sabato]

Ronin

Me envÃ?Â*a por favor un mensaje privado...

muchas gracias,