H.P. 495. --The Book, and The Gun

Dwight Gruber · 10-03-2002, 12:25 AM

OK, lets try this again.

Here's the grip strap marking on my 1920 Commercial Police.

The closese I've been able to come to ID-ing it from Gortz&Bryans is HP. (no period after the H), the Prussian Senior Service Police Academy. There is no listing for H.P. . My question is, were armourors consistently attentive to the regulations, or is it known that the odd period appeared or disappeared in the course of stamping these numbers, or were there misunderstandings or misinterpretations of the regs? Is it necessary to apply common sense in the interpretations of these markings? Or is there an H.P. (with the periods) which I have missed somewhere?

This is a straight question, I am not trying to promote WAGs here. G&B (p. 103) lists the Allenstein Landjagerei school as LSAI (no periods), and on the next page illustrates this with a picture of such a pistol marked LS.AI. (note periods). So, obviously, it happens. How do those of us with little experience go about interpreting these markings in the face of such evidence?

As long as we're on the subject of this gun I have another question. This gun has the unit marking stamped on the right side of the receiver.

I've never seen anybody point this out on their unit marked guns. Was this common? Uncommon? Anybody else's Luger stamped in this fashion?

For the record, here are pictures of the entire gun. Its easily 95%, strong straw, nicely made (its a Commercial, after all). Magazine is matching #2. Only sad down-side is ground off stock lug, so I got a pretty good deal on it.

--Dwight

MauserLugers · 10-03-2002, 12:54 AM

Hi,
I wrote a couple of posts on these H.P. Lugers over the last year. Your magazine should have the H.P. 495 on the spine of the magazine. All of these H.P. Lugers have the stock lug ground off, except one, which leads to the belief that they were done in Germany for this organization. The holsters are also marked with the H.P.. The magazine I have all seen had aluminium bases on them and some have an S/42 with a W/154 also on the base. These are the only Lugers I know of that are marked like this. Also, most have the property number on the back above the lanyard loop. Nice Luger and not many are known and the meaning is still in question. I only know of about 5 of these. Good collecting!

Dwight Gruber · 10-03-2002, 02:05 AM

Mauserlugers,

Thanks for the straight goods. The magazine is stamped on the spine, the mag body surface is not in the best of shape so I didn't see it in casual observation, wouldn't have looked for it without your prompting.

All evidence is that the wood mag bottom is original, the faces of the mounting pin appear the same as the metal sufaces surrounding them. There are no other markings beyond the unit mark, seril#, and 2.

There is no property number on the back of the pistol.

I searched out your previous post, it was very informative. I did the bright-light test on the ground spot on the grips, the bluing there is browned and clearly old.

I become more delighted with this Luger at every moment

--Dwight

MauserLugers · 10-03-2002, 11:30 AM

Hi Dwight,
Your Luger with the "U" serial number is actually a "sneak" termed in Still's book as a 1929 Luger.

My H.P. Luger is H.P. 213 and the serial number is also in the "U" block. Derek Seltzer had an H.P. holster and extra magazine for sale that I sold him about a year ago, that you might want to try and track down to complete your outfit. If you have anymore questions you can contact me directly at phl3586@blackfoot.net or my phone number is 406/859/3808 --- thanks and good collecting!

10-03-2002, 12:25 AM	#1
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	H.P. 495. --The Book, and The Gun OK, lets try this again. Here's the grip strap marking on my 1920 Commercial Police. The closese I've been able to come to ID-ing it from Gortz&Bryans is HP. (no period after the H), the Prussian Senior Service Police Academy. There is no listing for H.P. . My question is, were armourors consistently attentive to the regulations, or is it known that the odd period appeared or disappeared in the course of stamping these numbers, or were there misunderstandings or misinterpretations of the regs? Is it necessary to apply common sense in the interpretations of these markings? Or is there an H.P. (with the periods) which I have missed somewhere? This is a straight question, I am not trying to promote WAGs here. G&B (p. 103) lists the Allenstein Landjagerei school as LSAI (no periods), and on the next page illustrates this with a picture of such a pistol marked LS.AI. (note periods). So, obviously, it happens. How do those of us with little experience go about interpreting these markings in the face of such evidence? As long as we're on the subject of this gun I have another question. This gun has the unit marking stamped on the right side of the receiver. I've never seen anybody point this out on their unit marked guns. Was this common? Uncommon? Anybody else's Luger stamped in this fashion? For the record, here are pictures of the entire gun. Its easily 95%, strong straw, nicely made (its a Commercial, after all). Magazine is matching #2. Only sad down-side is ground off stock lug, so I got a pretty good deal on it. --Dwight

10-03-2002, 12:54 AM	#2
MauserLugers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philipsburg, Montana 59858 Posts: 250 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	Hi, I wrote a couple of posts on these H.P. Lugers over the last year. Your magazine should have the H.P. 495 on the spine of the magazine. All of these H.P. Lugers have the stock lug ground off, except one, which leads to the belief that they were done in Germany for this organization. The holsters are also marked with the H.P.. The magazine I have all seen had aluminium bases on them and some have an S/42 with a W/154 also on the base. These are the only Lugers I know of that are marked like this. Also, most have the property number on the back above the lanyard loop. Nice Luger and not many are known and the meaning is still in question. I only know of about 5 of these. Good collecting!

10-03-2002, 02:05 AM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,889 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,281 Times in 423 Posts	Mauserlugers, Thanks for the straight goods. The magazine is stamped on the spine, the mag body surface is not in the best of shape so I didn't see it in casual observation, wouldn't have looked for it without your prompting. All evidence is that the wood mag bottom is original, the faces of the mounting pin appear the same as the metal sufaces surrounding them. There are no other markings beyond the unit mark, seril#, and 2. There is no property number on the back of the pistol. I searched out your previous post, it was very informative. I did the bright-light test on the ground spot on the grips, the bluing there is browned and clearly old. I become more delighted with this Luger at every moment --Dwight

10-03-2002, 11:30 AM	#4
MauserLugers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philipsburg, Montana 59858 Posts: 250 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	Hi Dwight, Your Luger with the "U" serial number is actually a "sneak" termed in Still's book as a 1929 Luger. My H.P. Luger is H.P. 213 and the serial number is also in the "U" block. Derek Seltzer had an H.P. holster and extra magazine for sale that I sold him about a year ago, that you might want to try and track down to complete your outfit. If you have anymore questions you can contact me directly at phl3586@blackfoot.net or my phone number is 406/859/3808 --- thanks and good collecting!