Cased 1911 Erfurt unit marked

Lugers down under · 07-09-2002, 06:35 AM

This is my cased 1911 unit marked Erfurt.
First issue made in the first week of production in 1911. Serial number 692 (no suffix) Imperial German Army Proof.No stock lug. Arsenal fitted hold open with Erfurt arsenal proof stamp on the hold open pin.All matching numbers including both magazines.95% original blue all over In walnut case complete with stripping tool, spare mag,short cleaning rod pin punch and 16 rounds of WW1 issue 9mm ammo in unopened packet.Also the 1911 holster which came with the gun.
Gun is Unit marked 110.R.M.G.26 which I translate as 110th reserve machine gun company, gun number 26 but I stand corrected if I am wrong.
Silver crest in case says Erfurt 1911.
Murray.

Roadkill · 07-09-2002, 12:43 PM

Sir,
You continue to amaze me. What is going on down there for you to consistently find such remarkable guns?

RK

John Sabato · 07-09-2002, 12:46 PM

Me Too Murray... Thanks for sharing a great find with us all...

kidvett · 07-09-2002, 03:24 PM

Very nice indeed [img]smile.gif[/img]

Is the case from the same period? It's a very nice case and I was curious about the maker....

kidvett [img]wink.gif[/img]

wterrell · 07-09-2002, 09:28 PM

.....and you find them at flea markets!

.....I wonder if I could ever adjust to the climate.....

Jan C Still · 07-09-2002, 10:27 PM

Murray
Neat 1911 Erfurt. What are the details of the box?
110.R(script).M.G.26 signifies: 110 Reserve Infantry Regiment, Machine Gun Company, weapon number 26.
The number in front of the R. most often signifies the regiment number. Most Regiments had one MG Co. in 1914 and three toward the end of the war.
Jan
Murray note change as per your data.

Lugers down under · 07-10-2002, 05:28 AM

Jan,
Firstly I must state how honored I was to receive your comments concerning my unit marked Lugers which I consider to be among the most interesting as far as history is concerned.
I have four of your books and my interpretation of the marks on the 1911 Erfurt was based on your book on Imperial Lugers, my favorite.I may have misunderstood the "script" for the R which you will see attached, which I interpreted as "R for reserve.
A close up view of the gun follows and you will see it is in very nice condition
The plaque in the case simply says Parabellum,
Erfurt, 1911 but I do not know its origin. It looks to be around the turn of the 19th century by the type of screws and construction but there is no maker's name.

Many thanks for your interest guys; I have a number of other unit marked Lugers which I will post if you are interested.
Kind wishes,

Murray

John Sabato · 07-10-2002, 10:55 AM

Murray, we want to see them ALL!

Thanks again for sharing...

Jan C Still · 07-10-2002, 11:38 AM

Murray
Your boxed Erfurt is in beautiful condition. I would guess that the luger was brought back after the end of WWI and privatley boxed. I would very much like to see photographs of your other unit marked lugers.

Would you send a list of all your unit marked Lugers so I can add them to my data base.
Thanks
Jan
You are correct the script R. signifies reserve IR

Roadkill · 07-10-2002, 02:56 PM

Just a little additional info.

http://www.worldwar1.com/maps/sfga01.gif
http://www.worldwar1.com/pharc007.htm
http://www.worldwar1.com/foto/fww2335b.jpg
http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/jpg/cunel3.jpg

When Germany entered the war in 1914 each infantry regiment had three machine gun companies
of hand pick troops, thoroughly trained in the operation of the sled mounted '08 Maxim. Each
company had six guns crewed by 1 Company commander, 3 2nd Lts. and 133 other personnel
(including support personnel). By 1917 the number of guns per company had risen to 12.

RK

Jeff Noll · 07-11-2002, 09:08 PM

To Roadkill, The data on German Regimental machine gun companies is incorrect. The .gif url you referenced is not labled properly. At mobilization German line infantry regiments each had one machine gun company which was part of the 1st Battalion. This related to all of the regiments Nr. 1-182 + Garde/Bavarian Regiments (additional regiments beginning with Nr. 183 were added beginning in 1915). Not all of the reserve regiments had even one machine gun company at mobilization. It was not until 1916 that addtional machine gun companies were added to the 2nd and 3rd Battalions. Some earlier marked pistols had an additonal 1, 2, or 3 squeezed into the existing marking when expansion occurred to denote between the three machine gun companies. There is a 08 1st issue out there, s/n 9682a, that has 98.R.M.G.40. marked on the front strap and J.R.98.1.M.G.K. 50. on the rear strap. My book the Imperial German Regimental Marking (listed on links) has approximately 500 lugers with markings documented. You can see several examples of these markings. w/r Jeff

Doubs · 07-11-2002, 10:05 PM

(An unsolicited plug for Jeff's book) I received my copy of Jeff's book earlier this week and, even though my time to view it has been limited by a couple of minor home disasters involving a destroyed mail box and post and a water leak that flooded my den and garage, I can say that the book is worth every penny it costs. Great information and the line drawings of German Soldiers in action are worth the price alone. Anyone interested in Imperial Lugers should have "The Imperial German regimental Markings" by Jeff along with Jan Still's excellent "Imperial Lugers". They're both great references.

Lugers down under · 07-12-2002, 04:29 PM

Jeff,
I sent off my life savings of US Dollars (we dont see too many green back down under here, only rare lugers)carefully wraped and address to you for one of your books as discussed and I am currently camped out at the post box.
Taking of rain, in the last month we have had one metre of rain here were I live, thats 39 inches,
and the worst flood damage in living or recorded memory.
Murray

Roadkill · 07-12-2002, 09:18 PM

Jeff, thanks for the correction. As a high school JROTC instructor I deal a lot with what I call revisionist politically correct socialistic history aspects. I keep the Social Science and History Depts on a low boil all the time for telling intelligent students what a load of BS they are being taught. Facts are facts. Somewhere along the line being incorrect is OK as long as it was meant well. Last big one was over the Hiroshima/Nagasaki A bombs. Way more kids were adamant that the US was completely wrong than should have been. By the time I got through with details of Nanking,USS Arizona, Battan, and Unit 31 views had moderated somewhat. Glad you are here. <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

RK

Lugers down under · 07-12-2002, 09:43 PM

Randall,
I know that this is a little off the subject of Lugers but it is line with your last post.
My wife and I visit the USA every year as we love the place and the people.
We usually fly via Hawaii as it is a great stop over. We always try an pay our respects at Pearl Harbour in memory of those US servicemen and women who gave thier lives so that we here down under still have a country of our own.
On our last visit in March this year we were shocked to learn that the current understanding of the young visiters from Japan is that the reason Japan attacked Pearl Harbour and the USA 1n 1941 was in retaliation for the USA bombing of Hiroshima!

Kind wishes,
Murray.

Jeff Noll · 07-12-2002, 11:46 PM

To Roadkill: We are 100% in alignment over the Hiroshima/Nagasaki nukes!!! There are one heck of alot Americans walking around today because their Fathers did not have to invade mainland Japan. Too bad we didn't have the bombs in 1942 for 30 seconds over Tokoyo.

To Doubs: Thanks for your endorsment of my book. Nothing is more gratifying than to have other collectors find value in some information you present.

To Lugers down under: If you email me your address I will mail a book to your tomorrow. Your money will get here.........eventually!

w/r Jeff

07-09-2002, 06:35 AM	#1
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Cased 1911 Erfurt unit marked This is my cased 1911 unit marked Erfurt. First issue made in the first week of production in 1911. Serial number 692 (no suffix) Imperial German Army Proof.No stock lug. Arsenal fitted hold open with Erfurt arsenal proof stamp on the hold open pin.All matching numbers including both magazines.95% original blue all over In walnut case complete with stripping tool, spare mag,short cleaning rod pin punch and 16 rounds of WW1 issue 9mm ammo in unopened packet.Also the 1911 holster which came with the gun. Gun is Unit marked 110.R.M.G.26 which I translate as 110th reserve machine gun company, gun number 26 but I stand corrected if I am wrong. Silver crest in case says Erfurt 1911. Murray. __________________ Lugers down under

07-09-2002, 12:46 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Me Too Murray... Thanks for sharing a great find with us all... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-09-2002, 09:28 PM	#5
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	.....and you find them at flea markets! .....I wonder if I could ever adjust to the climate..... __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

07-10-2002, 05:28 AM	#7
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Jan, Firstly I must state how honored I was to receive your comments concerning my unit marked Lugers which I consider to be among the most interesting as far as history is concerned. I have four of your books and my interpretation of the marks on the 1911 Erfurt was based on your book on Imperial Lugers, my favorite.I may have misunderstood the "script" for the R which you will see attached, which I interpreted as "R for reserve. A close up view of the gun follows and you will see it is in very nice condition The plaque in the case simply says Parabellum, Erfurt, 1911 but I do not know its origin. It looks to be around the turn of the 19th century by the type of screws and construction but there is no maker's name. Many thanks for your interest guys; I have a number of other unit marked Lugers which I will post if you are interested. Kind wishes, Murray __________________ Lugers down under

07-10-2002, 10:55 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Murray, we want to see them ALL! Thanks again for sharing... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-09-2002, 12:43 PM	#2
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Sir, You continue to amaze me. What is going on down there for you to consistently find such remarkable guns? RK

07-09-2002, 03:24 PM	#4
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Very nice indeed [img]smile.gif[/img] Is the case from the same period? It's a very nice case and I was curious about the maker.... kidvett [img]wink.gif[/img]

07-09-2002, 10:27 PM	#6
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Murray Neat 1911 Erfurt. What are the details of the box? 110.R(script).M.G.26 signifies: 110 Reserve Infantry Regiment, Machine Gun Company, weapon number 26. The number in front of the R. most often signifies the regiment number. Most Regiments had one MG Co. in 1914 and three toward the end of the war. Jan Murray note change as per your data.

07-10-2002, 11:38 AM	#9
Jan C Still User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Box 240188, Douglas, Alaska, 99824 Posts: 463 Thanks: 0 Thanked 52 Times in 32 Posts	Murray Your boxed Erfurt is in beautiful condition. I would guess that the luger was brought back after the end of WWI and privatley boxed. I would very much like to see photographs of your other unit marked lugers. Would you send a list of all your unit marked Lugers so I can add them to my data base. Thanks Jan You are correct the script R. signifies reserve IR

07-10-2002, 02:56 PM	#10
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Just a little additional info. http://www.worldwar1.com/maps/sfga01.gif http://www.worldwar1.com/pharc007.htm http://www.worldwar1.com/foto/fww2335b.jpg http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/jpg/cunel3.jpg When Germany entered the war in 1914 each infantry regiment had three machine gun companies of hand pick troops, thoroughly trained in the operation of the sled mounted '08 Maxim. Each company had six guns crewed by 1 Company commander, 3 2nd Lts. and 133 other personnel (including support personnel). By 1917 the number of guns per company had risen to 12. RK

07-11-2002, 09:08 PM	#11
Jeff Noll User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 7 Posts	To Roadkill, The data on German Regimental machine gun companies is incorrect. The .gif url you referenced is not labled properly. At mobilization German line infantry regiments each had one machine gun company which was part of the 1st Battalion. This related to all of the regiments Nr. 1-182 + Garde/Bavarian Regiments (additional regiments beginning with Nr. 183 were added beginning in 1915). Not all of the reserve regiments had even one machine gun company at mobilization. It was not until 1916 that addtional machine gun companies were added to the 2nd and 3rd Battalions. Some earlier marked pistols had an additonal 1, 2, or 3 squeezed into the existing marking when expansion occurred to denote between the three machine gun companies. There is a 08 1st issue out there, s/n 9682a, that has 98.R.M.G.40. marked on the front strap and J.R.98.1.M.G.K. 50. on the rear strap. My book the Imperial German Regimental Marking (listed on links) has approximately 500 lugers with markings documented. You can see several examples of these markings. w/r Jeff

07-11-2002, 10:05 PM	#12
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	(An unsolicited plug for Jeff's book) I received my copy of Jeff's book earlier this week and, even though my time to view it has been limited by a couple of minor home disasters involving a destroyed mail box and post and a water leak that flooded my den and garage, I can say that the book is worth every penny it costs. Great information and the line drawings of German Soldiers in action are worth the price alone. Anyone interested in Imperial Lugers should have "The Imperial German regimental Markings" by Jeff along with Jan Still's excellent "Imperial Lugers". They're both great references.

07-12-2002, 04:29 PM	#13
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Jeff, I sent off my life savings of US Dollars (we dont see too many green back down under here, only rare lugers)carefully wraped and address to you for one of your books as discussed and I am currently camped out at the post box. Taking of rain, in the last month we have had one metre of rain here were I live, thats 39 inches, and the worst flood damage in living or recorded memory. Murray __________________ Lugers down under

07-12-2002, 09:18 PM	#14
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Jeff, thanks for the correction. As a high school JROTC instructor I deal a lot with what I call revisionist politically correct socialistic history aspects. I keep the Social Science and History Depts on a low boil all the time for telling intelligent students what a load of BS they are being taught. Facts are facts. Somewhere along the line being incorrect is OK as long as it was meant well. Last big one was over the Hiroshima/Nagasaki A bombs. Way more kids were adamant that the US was completely wrong than should have been. By the time I got through with details of Nanking,USS Arizona, Battan, and Unit 31 views had moderated somewhat. Glad you are here. <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" /> RK

07-12-2002, 09:43 PM	#15
Lugers down under User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Great Barrier Island, New Zealand Posts: 228 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts	Randall, I know that this is a little off the subject of Lugers but it is line with your last post. My wife and I visit the USA every year as we love the place and the people. We usually fly via Hawaii as it is a great stop over. We always try an pay our respects at Pearl Harbour in memory of those US servicemen and women who gave thier lives so that we here down under still have a country of our own. On our last visit in March this year we were shocked to learn that the current understanding of the young visiters from Japan is that the reason Japan attacked Pearl Harbour and the USA 1n 1941 was in retaliation for the USA bombing of Hiroshima! Kind wishes, Murray. __________________ Lugers down under

07-12-2002, 11:46 PM	#16
Jeff Noll User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 7 Posts	To Roadkill: We are 100% in alignment over the Hiroshima/Nagasaki nukes!!! There are one heck of alot Americans walking around today because their Fathers did not have to invade mainland Japan. Too bad we didn't have the bombs in 1942 for 30 seconds over Tokoyo. To Doubs: Thanks for your endorsment of my book. Nothing is more gratifying than to have other collectors find value in some information you present. To Lugers down under: If you email me your address I will mail a book to your tomorrow. Your money will get here.........eventually! w/r Jeff