Mosin-Nagant W/German Unit Marks

Doubs · 06-28-2002, 11:19 AM

Over on the "Collector's Forum" is a picture of a Finn rework Mosin-Nagant that has Imperial German unit markings "4.K.235" stamped on the receiver and then a single line struck through each. I'm tempted to say it translates to "4th Kompanie, 235th Infantry Regiment" but I'm not certain. Can anyone help?

The link to the site is: http://www.gunboards.com/forums/Ultr...0583&SID=57418

Jeff Noll · 07-03-2002, 11:12 PM

Doubs, My vote is with your translation. I have seen and had reported several bayonets and pistol with this type of marking. I believe it was just a quick and dirty marking. w/r Jeff

Doubs · 07-04-2002, 03:05 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Jeff Noll:
Doubs, My vote is with your translation. I have seen and had reported several bayonets and pistol with this type of marking. I believe it was just a quick and dirty marking. w/r Jeff<hr></blockquote>

Thanks, Jeff. Assuming the USPS does it's part, you should be receiving my order for your book in a day or so. I mailed it Monday. I'm looking forward to reading it.

[img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

Roadkill · 07-04-2002, 06:30 PM

Not all Russian units were of the communist belief, especially the Ukranians. Many willingly when captured went to the German side and were used by the Waffen SS which provided the connection to the KZ system where many were guards and worse. Makes sense they would use familiar weapons, inventoried and issued by the Wehrmacht. How they got back to the Finns is another question.
There were also Finnish units that were part of the Waffen SS Nordland Division who possibly could have used Russian weapons.

RK

Doubs · 07-04-2002, 08:42 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Roadkill:
 There were also Finnish units that were part of the Waffen SS Nordland Division who possibly could have used Russian weapons. RK<hr></blockquote>

The Finns would have been familiar with the Mosin-Nagant rifles as it was the standard issue arm of Finland's Army. Interestingly, the Finns never manufactured their own rifles but rebuilt rifles captured from the Russians or purchased from other countries. My 1940 Tikka barreled model 91 is a good example. The receiver is an 1894 Chatellerault, made in France, and carries an Austrian capture stamp "WG" on the receiver. The stock was made in Finland as was the barrel. Most Finn rifles are a hodge-podge of parts from various guns. Still, they gave the Soviets a severe bloody nose with those rifles when the USSR invaded Finland in 1939 and again later in the "Continuation War".

Roadkill · 07-04-2002, 09:25 PM

Doubs,
There is a great movie out called "The Winter War" made in Finland w/English subtitles, is an excellent historical film.

RK

Doubs · 07-04-2002, 10:06 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Roadkill:
Doubs,
There is a great movie out called "The Winter War" made in Finland w/English subtitles, is an excellent historical film. RK<hr></blockquote>

RK,

I received a copy from Deep Discount DVD last week and I agree; It's an excellent movie with historically accurate arms and equipment. Anyone with an interest in military arms would enjoy it.

Thor · 07-04-2002, 10:13 PM

Pic of the cover

Doubs · 07-05-2002, 01:06 AM

Thor,

The cover you show appears to be from a VHS tape box. (And I may well be incorrect about that) The guys who have the tape and then purchased the DVD say that the improvement in picture quality is absolutely amazing. I've not seen the tape so can't make a comparison but the DVD picture is excellent. I paid less than $17.00 for the DVD delivered.

Thor · 07-05-2002, 02:30 AM

Doubs, I have seen neither version. Sounds interesting to me. Thor

Doubs · 07-05-2002, 11:57 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Thor:
Doubs, I have seen neither version. Sounds interesting to me. Thor<hr></blockquote>

I believe you'd enjoy the movie. The Finn soldiers wore German helmets and in one scene toward the end of the movie a Luger has a prominent, if short, role.

06-28-2002, 11:19 AM	#1
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	Mosin-Nagant W/German Unit Marks Over on the "Collector's Forum" is a picture of a Finn rework Mosin-Nagant that has Imperial German unit markings "4.K.235" stamped on the receiver and then a single line struck through each. I'm tempted to say it translates to "4th Kompanie, 235th Infantry Regiment" but I'm not certain. Can anyone help? The link to the site is: http://www.gunboards.com/forums/Ultr...0583&SID=57418

07-04-2002, 03:05 PM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Jeff Noll: <strong>Doubs, My vote is with your translation. I have seen and had reported several bayonets and pistol with this type of marking. I believe it was just a quick and dirty marking. w/r Jeff</strong><hr></blockquote> Thanks, Jeff. Assuming the USPS does it's part, you should be receiving my order for your book in a day or so. I mailed it Monday. I'm looking forward to reading it. [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

07-04-2002, 08:42 PM	#5
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Roadkill: <strong> There were also Finnish units that were part of the Waffen SS Nordland Division who possibly could have used Russian weapons. RK</strong><hr></blockquote> The Finns would have been familiar with the Mosin-Nagant rifles as it was the standard issue arm of Finland's Army. Interestingly, the Finns never manufactured their own rifles but rebuilt rifles captured from the Russians or purchased from other countries. My 1940 Tikka barreled model 91 is a good example. The receiver is an 1894 Chatellerault, made in France, and carries an Austrian capture stamp "WG" on the receiver. The stock was made in Finland as was the barrel. Most Finn rifles are a hodge-podge of parts from various guns. Still, they gave the Soviets a severe bloody nose with those rifles when the USSR invaded Finland in 1939 and again later in the "Continuation War".

07-04-2002, 10:06 PM	#7
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Roadkill: <strong>Doubs, There is a great movie out called "The Winter War" made in Finland w/English subtitles, is an excellent historical film. RK</strong><hr></blockquote> RK, I received a copy from Deep Discount DVD last week and I agree; It's an excellent movie with historically accurate arms and equipment. Anyone with an interest in military arms would enjoy it.

07-04-2002, 10:13 PM	#8
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Pic of the cover __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-03-2002, 11:12 PM	#2
Jeff Noll User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ventura, California Posts: 45 Thanks: 0 Thanked 20 Times in 7 Posts	Doubs, My vote is with your translation. I have seen and had reported several bayonets and pistol with this type of marking. I believe it was just a quick and dirty marking. w/r Jeff

07-04-2002, 06:30 PM	#4
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Not all Russian units were of the communist belief, especially the Ukranians. Many willingly when captured went to the German side and were used by the Waffen SS which provided the connection to the KZ system where many were guards and worse. Makes sense they would use familiar weapons, inventoried and issued by the Wehrmacht. How they got back to the Finns is another question. There were also Finnish units that were part of the Waffen SS Nordland Division who possibly could have used Russian weapons. RK

07-04-2002, 09:25 PM	#6
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Doubs, There is a great movie out called "The Winter War" made in Finland w/English subtitles, is an excellent historical film. RK

07-05-2002, 01:06 AM	#9
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	Thor, The cover you show appears to be from a VHS tape box. (And I may well be incorrect about that) The guys who have the tape and then purchased the DVD say that the improvement in picture quality is absolutely amazing. I've not seen the tape so can't make a comparison but the DVD picture is excellent. I paid less than $17.00 for the DVD delivered.

07-05-2002, 02:30 AM	#10
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Doubs, I have seen neither version. Sounds interesting to me. Thor __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-05-2002, 11:57 AM	#11
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Thor: <strong>Doubs, I have seen neither version. Sounds interesting to me. Thor</strong><hr></blockquote> I believe you'd enjoy the movie. The Finn soldiers wore German helmets and in one scene toward the end of the movie a Luger has a prominent, if short, role.