Unit Markings Help Wanted...

Pete Ebbink · 07-13-2002, 09:14 PM

I got home late with my new police luger; but it was a bit too late to take photos, outdoors, with natural lighting. Will do that on Sunday and will post on the Forum.

Would appreciate some help on unit markings on the front grip strap...

Luger is a 1920 DWM Commerical, serial # 6276-m, small parts stamped (76)in the commerical style, with Crown/N on the left side of the frame as well as on the left side of the breech block. Bottom of barrel is stamped with Crown/N, and full serial number 6276-m.

No evidence of any older Imperial stamps or proofs.

The unit markings on the front grip strap are :

L.P.Th.Nr.172

Would appreciate any help letting me know if this unit marking is authentic and legit...

Bottom of wooden magazine is stamped "L.P.Th.", with full serial number (6276, with no "m"), and a "+"; which I believe means it was a back-up magazine.

The luger has both the police style sear safety and the magazine safety.

[img]biggrin.gif[/img] [img]eek.gif[/img] I was really surprised when I took off the left grip and saw that the magazine safety was still intact, except it has been deactived by having the little tab that stuck out behind the trigger filed off... [img]frown.gif[/img]

My only other disappointment is that the trigger side plate is stamped with "76" on the bottom edge, as in the commerical style, but also on the left, side panel, as in the military style... [img]frown.gif[/img] [img]frown.gif[/img] I am thinking the trigger side plate is not quite "right". [img]frown.gif[/img]

Would appreciate any honest info. on this...

Overall, this is a nice little luger for just a bit under $ 800.00 (CA-state pricing...).

If not truly 100%, still a pretty decent 9mm shooter...

Thanks in advance for your help and honest assessments. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Navy · 07-14-2002, 10:33 AM

I believe the markings stand for Landespolezi Thuringen, pistol number..

Tom A. <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

Pete Ebbink · 07-14-2002, 12:25 PM

Photos added on 7-14-02 :

Edward Tinker · 07-14-2002, 12:41 PM

nice photos Pete, no good (read informed) feedback from me,

ed

Pete Ebbink · 07-14-2002, 12:52 PM

Hello Tom A.,

From my reading in Jan C. Still's "Weimar Lugers", I think I have gathered the following :

(But, I could be all wrong here...)

L. - stands for Lanjagerei (rural constabulary).

P. - stands for Potsdam.

Th. - stands for ______________(?) Thuringen ?

Nr. - stands for ______________ (?) Number ?

172 - is the luger's issue number.

Doubs · 07-14-2002, 01:31 PM

VERY nice pictures of a VERY nice pistol, Tom. Great find.

I can think of a couple of valid reasons for the side plate to have a military style "last two digits" stamp on the side. An honest mistake that was simply allowed to pass. The unit's armorer, or possibly the officer it was issued to, found it easier to ID the proper side plate for reassembly by stamping the last two digits in the military style. Considering the uneven manner in which it was stamped, I favor the latter reason.

Thank you for sharing your good fortune.

Pete Ebbink · 07-14-2002, 02:13 PM

Hello Walker,

Yes, I think your explanation makes sense.

The bottom edge of the side plate definitely is stamped "76" in the commerical style and in the same font as all the other small parts. When someone decided to strike "76" on the side plate surface I think they used stamps with a little different font style and they got the "6" rotated 90 degrees wrong with their first strike, then realized it, and corrected and struck again with the "6" in the 12 o'clock position.
<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

Navy · 07-14-2002, 09:47 PM

The problem with the interpretation of these markings as Landjageri (Rural Police) is that Potsdam is a suburb of Berlin..hardly rural.

Tom A.

Pete Ebbink · 07-14-2002, 10:24 PM

Hello Tom A.,

Like I said, I could be all wrong here; and I usually am...

Thanks for setting me straight !!!

I did recently order Jeff Noll's book; should be here this week... <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

Brandon · 07-14-2002, 10:34 PM

Real Nice Pal! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Brandon

Garfield · 07-15-2002, 02:31 AM

I believe that Tom A has the correct read on your unit marksings, i.e., Landespolezi Thuringen, pistol number. While it is not a regulation authorized stamp, many weren't. I do make this observation; Potdam may well have been/is a suburb of Berlin,however, back them it was also a police district,consequently,IMHO,it would have had Landspolezi/Landsjagerei (rural police).

The problem with your read, Pete, is that you would have two police districts incorporated into the unit mark, Potdam/Thuringia. Wouldn't be right.

RE: Tom Noll's book on unit marks; I don't think that you will find much in there relating to Police unit marks.

Oh, yes, on the German Dagger forum there is a fellow who has a "1920 double date" that he says is unit marked as yours, "L.P. Th. Nr. 1110". It may be of passing interest.

Good Hunting,

policeluger · 07-15-2002, 12:30 PM

Ed, I have one close to yours, about 103 numbers off of your serial number, front grip is marked "L.P.Th.616.".
Mag is H-S type serial to gun and numbered 2. In mint condition with a side plate that is clean in is serial number, font size and style. However the right side of rec'r is marked E/46, an larger "2" below that and "PT" next to that and same interwoven "PT" on barrel.

Garfield · 07-15-2002, 03:15 PM

Policeluger:

The proofs on your pistol are interesting. The TP stamps on the barrel and right receiver are proofs used by the Technical Police (Technik Polezei). One of my references states that these proofs are found on Simpson reworks. Simpson used a E/46 proof. The same reference states that this proof was used only during 1934. The business with the large 2 below the E/46 mystyfies me, however. I haven't seen this before, which, admittedly, doesn't mean much. Do you have a pic that you could post of this mark? Are there any other proofs or acceptance marks on the right or left side of the barrel?

Goood Hunting,

Garfield

policeluger · 07-15-2002, 05:35 PM

Garfield,
the only proofs on the barrel and right side are those stated above with the exception of the C/N proof under side of barrel above SN#. I will see if I can get my wife to post a shot of the right side, and perhaps a few other shots in a day or so. I am computer/internet/posting of pictures challanged. Please check in a few days, thanks

Garfield · 07-15-2002, 06:40 PM

Know how you feel re the "computer-challenge". Will check later.

Regards

Pete Ebbink · 07-15-2002, 09:43 PM

Thanks to Tom A., Bill, and Howard for the help wityh my police unit markings !
<img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

policeluger · 07-16-2002, 11:24 PM

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/whatsthis.JPG
This is my first attempt at posting a picture, so I hope it works, thed E/46 ia a bit of a faint proof and the "2" is as large as the E/46, next to that and on the barrel in the interwoven "PT".

policeluger · 07-16-2002, 11:33 PM

2nd try!

policeluger · 07-17-2002, 12:03 AM

Ok, Ok if the third time doesn't work.....

Edward Tinker · 07-17-2002, 12:13 AM

There yah go Police Luger!

[img]smile.gif[/img]

07-13-2002, 09:14 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Unit Markings Help Wanted... I got home late with my new police luger; but it was a bit too late to take photos, outdoors, with natural lighting. Will do that on Sunday and will post on the Forum. Would appreciate some help on unit markings on the front grip strap... Luger is a 1920 DWM Commerical, serial # 6276-m, small parts stamped (76)in the commerical style, with Crown/N on the left side of the frame as well as on the left side of the breech block. Bottom of barrel is stamped with Crown/N, and full serial number 6276-m. No evidence of any older Imperial stamps or proofs. The unit markings on the front grip strap are : L.P.Th.Nr.172 Would appreciate any help letting me know if this unit marking is authentic and legit... Bottom of wooden magazine is stamped "L.P.Th.", with full serial number (6276, with no "m"), and a "+"; which I believe means it was a back-up magazine. The luger has both the police style sear safety and the magazine safety. [img]biggrin.gif[/img] [img]eek.gif[/img] I was really surprised when I took off the left grip and saw that the magazine safety was still intact, except it has been deactived by having the little tab that stuck out behind the trigger filed off... [img]frown.gif[/img] My only other disappointment is that the trigger side plate is stamped with "76" on the bottom edge, as in the commerical style, but also on the left, side panel, as in the military style... [img]frown.gif[/img] [img]frown.gif[/img] I am thinking the trigger side plate is not quite "right". [img]frown.gif[/img] Would appreciate any honest info. on this... Overall, this is a nice little luger for just a bit under $ 800.00 (CA-state pricing...). If not truly 100%, still a pretty decent 9mm shooter... Thanks in advance for your help and honest assessments. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

07-14-2002, 12:41 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	nice photos Pete, no good (read informed) feedback from me, ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-17-2002, 12:13 AM	#20
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	There yah go Police Luger! [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-14-2002, 10:33 AM	#2
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	I believe the markings stand for Landespolezi Thuringen, pistol number.. Tom A. <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

07-14-2002, 12:25 PM	#3
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Photos added on 7-14-02 :

07-14-2002, 12:52 PM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Tom A., From my reading in Jan C. Still's "Weimar Lugers", I think I have gathered the following : (But, I could be all wrong here...) L. - stands for Lanjagerei (rural constabulary). P. - stands for Potsdam. Th. - stands for ______________(?) Thuringen ? Nr. - stands for ______________ (?) Number ? 172 - is the luger's issue number.

07-14-2002, 01:31 PM	#6
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,670 Thanks: 769 Thanked 1,611 Times in 525 Posts	VERY nice pictures of a VERY nice pistol, Tom. Great find. I can think of a couple of valid reasons for the side plate to have a military style "last two digits" stamp on the side. An honest mistake that was simply allowed to pass. The unit's armorer, or possibly the officer it was issued to, found it easier to ID the proper side plate for reassembly by stamping the last two digits in the military style. Considering the uneven manner in which it was stamped, I favor the latter reason. Thank you for sharing your good fortune.

07-14-2002, 02:13 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Walker, Yes, I think your explanation makes sense. The bottom edge of the side plate definitely is stamped "76" in the commerical style and in the same font as all the other small parts. When someone decided to strike "76" on the side plate surface I think they used stamps with a little different font style and they got the "6" rotated 90 degrees wrong with their first strike, then realized it, and corrected and struck again with the "6" in the 12 o'clock position. <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

07-14-2002, 09:47 PM	#8
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	The problem with the interpretation of these markings as Landjageri (Rural Police) is that Potsdam is a suburb of Berlin..hardly rural. Tom A.

07-14-2002, 10:24 PM	#9
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Tom A., Like I said, I could be all wrong here; and I usually am... Thanks for setting me straight !!! I did recently order Jeff Noll's book; should be here this week... <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

07-14-2002, 10:34 PM	#10
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Real Nice Pal! <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> Brandon

07-15-2002, 02:31 AM	#11
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I believe that Tom A has the correct read on your unit marksings, i.e., Landespolezi Thuringen, pistol number. While it is not a regulation authorized stamp, many weren't. I do make this observation; Potdam may well have been/is a suburb of Berlin,however, back them it was also a police district,consequently,IMHO,it would have had Landspolezi/Landsjagerei (rural police). The problem with your read, Pete, is that you would have two police districts incorporated into the unit mark, Potdam/Thuringia. Wouldn't be right. RE: Tom Noll's book on unit marks; I don't think that you will find much in there relating to Police unit marks. Oh, yes, on the German Dagger forum there is a fellow who has a "1920 double date" that he says is unit marked as yours, "L.P. Th. Nr. 1110". It may be of passing interest. Good Hunting,

07-15-2002, 12:30 PM	#12
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Ed, I have one close to yours, about 103 numbers off of your serial number, front grip is marked "L.P.Th.616.". Mag is H-S type serial to gun and numbered 2. In mint condition with a side plate that is clean in is serial number, font size and style. However the right side of rec'r is marked E/46, an larger "2" below that and "PT" next to that and same interwoven "PT" on barrel.

07-15-2002, 03:15 PM	#13
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Policeluger: The proofs on your pistol are interesting. The TP stamps on the barrel and right receiver are proofs used by the Technical Police (Technik Polezei). One of my references states that these proofs are found on Simpson reworks. Simpson used a E/46 proof. The same reference states that this proof was used only during 1934. The business with the large 2 below the E/46 mystyfies me, however. I haven't seen this before, which, admittedly, doesn't mean much. Do you have a pic that you could post of this mark? Are there any other proofs or acceptance marks on the right or left side of the barrel? Goood Hunting, Garfield

07-15-2002, 05:35 PM	#14
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Garfield, the only proofs on the barrel and right side are those stated above with the exception of the C/N proof under side of barrel above SN#. I will see if I can get my wife to post a shot of the right side, and perhaps a few other shots in a day or so. I am computer/internet/posting of pictures challanged. Please check in a few days, thanks

07-15-2002, 06:40 PM	#15
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Know how you feel re the "computer-challenge". Will check later. Regards

07-15-2002, 09:43 PM	#16
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Thanks to Tom A., Bill, and Howard for the help wityh my police unit markings ! <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />

07-16-2002, 11:24 PM	#17
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/whatsthis.JPG This is my first attempt at posting a picture, so I hope it works, thed E/46 ia a bit of a faint proof and the "2" is as large as the E/46, next to that and on the barrel in the interwoven "PT".

07-16-2002, 11:33 PM	#18
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	2nd try!

07-17-2002, 12:03 AM	#19
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Ok, Ok if the third time doesn't work.....