Collector grade question - Page 2

lugerholsterrepair · 10-12-2013, 08:36 PM

Tony, You won't argue because there is nothing to argue about. One I didn't call you stupid. Don't put words in my mouth..it aint sanitary. I said it is incredibly stupid to do such a thing. And it is.. for the reasons I already stated. There are cheap guns out there..one P-38 or Luger shoots just like another.
What I particularly dislike about attitudes like yours are your disrespect. I tried to say it tongue in cheek but you draw me out with your self rightous self serving lack of any respect for a rare historical artifact, never to be made again. Cannot be replaced. That you show no consideration for any other view except it's mine and I can break it if I want. And you think I personally attacked you. I attack all caretakers of these artifacts who wish to molest them in any way.
just because one person makes a different decision from another. They are not stupid or a moron. They just have a different opinion. That is a very poor argument..You make a decision to jump off a 500 ft. high bridge. I make the decision to watch your fall. Whose the moron?
You have these guns in your care..certainly do what you wish with them. That is certainly your choice. I disrespect your decision, and anyone else's decision to shoot all matching collector grade guns.

Tony Min · 10-12-2013, 08:50 PM

Ok, you win. Your argument is so strong I will never shoot my guns again. Thanks

lugerholsterrepair · 10-12-2013, 08:59 PM

Why am I wasting my time on a petulant child with no capacity for reasonable discourse. NOW your being a moron.

wlyon · 10-13-2013, 12:29 AM

The discussion on whether to shoot collectible firearms or not has been ongoing for a long time .I personally do not and will not shoot collectible weapons. It is true that it is the owners right to do whatever with them. We can preserve these historical items or we can ruin them. The choice is indeed ours. I am only a brief caretaker and I will preserve them for the next caretakers. I seriously feel this is my duty as a collector. My 2 cents. Bill

Sergio Natali · 10-13-2013, 01:12 AM

I completely agree with Bill, I never shoot my collectible guns, especially Lugers, to cut a long story short it's a matter of respect towards the gun and the page of history linked to to it, but after all it's a personal choice, in any case even if I shoot a GLOCK or an oldish Swiss Army SIG P210 after having cleaned it I throughout I spray it with FINSUPER a preserving gun oil l with a bit of "teflon" and I wipe it with a silocone coat, that leaves a thin coating that can help eliminate any finish problems.

alvin · 10-13-2013, 05:57 AM

For collectibles, do not shoot it if you plan to sell it in short term (say, next year); do not shoot early pistols because even unnumbered parts are hard to find; do not shoot vest pocket pistols because those tiny parts are super fragile; and do not shoot expensive pistols (say, $2k).

Patronen · 10-13-2013, 09:14 AM

Parts breakage and lost value of a collectible. It's a 50/50 chance. It's as simple as that.
It's your decision.

cirelaw · 10-13-2013, 10:23 AM

What part in any luger is more prone to breakage? It seem the Erfurt spings were maked and I'm sure hard to replace!

alvin · 10-13-2013, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

What part in any luger is more prone to breakage?

Have not fired Lugers except postwar Interarms. But, I guess following parts are fragile -- extractor, firing pin, and genuine "black widow" grip panels.

The hold open lever does not look strong either.

SteveM · 10-13-2013, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

What part in any luger is more prone to breakage?

Survey here:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...light=breakage

cirelaw · 10-13-2013, 11:28 AM

In other words did one maker produce better quality apart from Krieghoff!

Geo99 · 10-15-2013, 02:17 AM

To shoot or not to shoot?

I think it depends on the gun. Old revolvers don't break nearly as easily as an auto loader can. P38's don't break like Lugers do - they are much stronger and have far fewer numbered parts. I don't shoot my expensive Lugers, but I see nothing wrong with shooting a $900 P38. They are pretty much indestructible, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveM

Survey here:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...light=breakage

I looked at this survey, not sure it all makes sense to me.

How do you break a grip screw by shooting?

Or a rear toggle axle pin? These are huge - they look like they would be one of the stronger parts in the gun, no?

- Geo

alvin · 10-15-2013, 10:01 PM

Screw is a special component, regardless gun type. Damaged through disassembly though.

====

Just watched this video. I fired thousands of rounds from Mauser, never met situation like this, at this high failure rate, something is seriously wrong. Firing correct gun, at least gives a correct feeling on how this thing should perform

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71zsZwqgayw

lugerholsterrepair · 10-16-2013, 01:22 PM

but I see nothing wrong with shooting a $900 P38. That might be true..I have very little experience with shooting these.

How do you break a grip screw by shooting?

Or a rear toggle axle pin..I broke one on my Navy shooter! Sheared off the flange. Try finding a large flange Imperial Navy toggle pin!

saab-bob · 10-16-2013, 06:35 PM

Alvin
Interesting video with the young man shooting the C96.Notice he pulled his finger from the trigger every time it jammed.Good for him.
What do you think his problem is?
I am thinking a weak magazine spring.He was getting full extraction and ejection.
Also,was he shooting Magtech .30 Mauser???
Must have been reloads,since Magtech doesn't load for that caliber?
Bob

alvin · 10-16-2013, 07:28 PM

It's hard to explain what we saw in the video -- the hammer did not lock, and the empty stayed in chamber after firing. He had to pull the bolt open to eject the empty case.

Assume the magazine spring was weak. That would explain the next round did not load, but that alone does not explain why the empty case stayed in chamber. If we assume the extractor had an issue, so the empty case was not extracted, and, the magazine spring was too weak to push the next round up quickly, that's possible. But, why didn't the hammer lock after firing? It might also has a sear or disconnector issue. But there is another possibility -- this gun's bolt lock might be mismatched and did fit the gun well, could the bolt occasionally locked too long time, and the residual pressure was not enough to open the bolt? It's possible as well. Or, reload ammo is too weak to finish the recycling work??

Too many possibilities.

Geo99 · 10-19-2013, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Or a rear toggle axle pin..I broke one on my Navy shooter! Sheared off the flange. Try finding a large flange Imperial Navy toggle pin!

Right, the flange - didn't think of that. Makes sense it would be the weakest part of the pin, but I didn't know they could shear completely off.

Sergio Natali · 10-19-2013, 05:42 AM

I like the Mauser C96 but I do not dare shooting my collectible Lugers, can you imagine a C96 ! :-)

cirelaw · 10-19-2013, 08:51 AM

I wonder what precautions the original owners took. I remember seeing those tiny oilers. What did they contain back then?

alvin · 10-19-2013, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

I like the Mauser C96 but I do not dare shooting my collectible Lugers, can you imagine a C96 ! :-)

Depends. This video shot an excellent 1930. I also fired near mint one before, wonderful experience, no video

A little bit luxury, due to the gun was over $2k. But 1930 is very solid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7cEQExy9ew

10-12-2013, 08:36 PM	#21
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Tony, You won't argue because there is nothing to argue about. One I didn't call you stupid. Don't put words in my mouth..it aint sanitary. I said it is incredibly stupid to do such a thing. And it is.. for the reasons I already stated. There are cheap guns out there..one P-38 or Luger shoots just like another. What I particularly dislike about attitudes like yours are your disrespect. I tried to say it tongue in cheek but you draw me out with your self rightous self serving lack of any respect for a rare historical artifact, never to be made again. Cannot be replaced. That you show no consideration for any other view except it's mine and I can break it if I want. And you think I personally attacked you. I attack all caretakers of these artifacts who wish to molest them in any way. just because one person makes a different decision from another. They are not stupid or a moron. They just have a different opinion. That is a very poor argument..You make a decision to jump off a 500 ft. high bridge. I make the decision to watch your fall. Whose the moron? You have these guns in your care..certainly do what you wish with them. That is certainly your choice. I disrespect your decision, and anyone else's decision to shoot all matching collector grade guns. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-12-2013, 08:59 PM	#23
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Why am I wasting my time on a petulant child with no capacity for reasonable discourse. NOW your being a moron. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-13-2013, 12:29 AM	#24
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	The discussion on whether to shoot collectible firearms or not has been ongoing for a long time .I personally do not and will not shoot collectible weapons. It is true that it is the owners right to do whatever with them. We can preserve these historical items or we can ruin them. The choice is indeed ours. I am only a brief caretaker and I will preserve them for the next caretakers. I seriously feel this is my duty as a collector. My 2 cents. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

10-13-2013, 01:12 AM	#25
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I completely agree with Bill, I never shoot my collectible guns, especially Lugers, to cut a long story short it's a matter of respect towards the gun and the page of history linked to to it, but after all it's a personal choice, in any case even if I shoot a GLOCK or an oldish Swiss Army SIG P210 after having cleaned it I throughout I spray it with FINSUPER a preserving gun oil l with a bit of "teflon" and I wipe it with a silocone coat, that leaves a thin coating that can help eliminate any finish problems. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list. Last edited by Sergio Natali; 10-14-2013 at 03:18 AM. Reason: mispellig

10-13-2013, 09:14 AM	#27
Patronen User Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 312 Thanks: 335 Thanked 93 Times in 70 Posts	Parts breakage and lost value of a collectible. It's a 50/50 chance. It's as simple as that. It's your decision. __________________ Dave

10-12-2013, 08:50 PM	#22
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	Ok, you win. Your argument is so strong I will never shoot my guns again. Thanks

10-13-2013, 05:57 AM	#26
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	For collectibles, do not shoot it if you plan to sell it in short term (say, next year); do not shoot early pistols because even unnumbered parts are hard to find; do not shoot vest pocket pistols because those tiny parts are super fragile; and do not shoot expensive pistols (say, $2k).

10-13-2013, 10:23 AM	#28
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	What part in any luger is more prone to breakage? It seem the Erfurt spings were maked and I'm sure hard to replace! Attached Thumbnails

10-13-2013, 11:28 AM	#31
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	Does It Make Any Difference Among Makers In other words did one maker produce better quality apart from Krieghoff!

10-15-2013, 10:01 PM	#33
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Screw is a special component, regardless gun type. Damaged through disassembly though. ==== Just watched this video. I fired thousands of rounds from Mauser, never met situation like this, at this high failure rate, something is seriously wrong. Firing correct gun, at least gives a correct feeling on how this thing should perform http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71zsZwqgayw

10-16-2013, 01:22 PM	#34
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	but I see nothing wrong with shooting a $900 P38. That might be true..I have very little experience with shooting these. How do you break a grip screw by shooting? Or a rear toggle axle pin..I broke one on my Navy shooter! Sheared off the flange. Try finding a large flange Imperial Navy toggle pin! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-16-2013, 06:35 PM	#35
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Alvin Interesting video with the young man shooting the C96.Notice he pulled his finger from the trigger every time it jammed.Good for him. What do you think his problem is? I am thinking a weak magazine spring.He was getting full extraction and ejection. Also,was he shooting Magtech .30 Mauser??? Must have been reloads,since Magtech doesn't load for that caliber? Bob __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

10-16-2013, 07:28 PM	#36
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	It's hard to explain what we saw in the video -- the hammer did not lock, and the empty stayed in chamber after firing. He had to pull the bolt open to eject the empty case. Assume the magazine spring was weak. That would explain the next round did not load, but that alone does not explain why the empty case stayed in chamber. If we assume the extractor had an issue, so the empty case was not extracted, and, the magazine spring was too weak to push the next round up quickly, that's possible. But, why didn't the hammer lock after firing? It might also has a sear or disconnector issue. But there is another possibility -- this gun's bolt lock might be mismatched and did fit the gun well, could the bolt occasionally locked too long time, and the residual pressure was not enough to open the bolt? It's possible as well. Or, reload ammo is too weak to finish the recycling work?? Too many possibilities.

10-19-2013, 05:42 AM	#38
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,082 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I like the Mauser C96 but I do not dare shooting my collectible Lugers, can you imagine a C96 ! :-) __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

10-19-2013, 08:51 AM	#39
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I wonder what precautions the original owners took. I remember seeing those tiny oilers. What did they contain back then?