DWM 1911 Namibia - Page 2

George Anderson · 02-10-2009, 03:42 PM

Piet, the early conical bullets dated March 1914 are very rare. Here in the New World we seldom find anything older than 1917 and these are all FMJ (full metal jacket). With the introduction of the Trommelmagazin in 1917 new 9mm round nose fmj ammo was introduced. The early conical lead bullet ammo and their boxes are super rare. Of course your war down there ended early so what is there predates August 1914.

Piet · 02-10-2009, 03:57 PM

Thanks to the guys that looked after the pistol for 98 years! Hope I can give their names

lugerholsterrepair · 02-10-2009, 04:15 PM

Really a beautiful rig! The condition is amazing. What a piece of history!

"With the introduction of the Trommelmagazin in 1917 new 9mm round nose fmj ammo was introduced." I believe the round head bullet was developed for another reason as well..the Allies considered the conical shaped bullet to be a DUMDUM and thusly illegal according to the Geneva Convention. If I am not mistaken this was after the war started.

Jerry Burney

Piet · 02-12-2009, 03:39 PM

George, Jan, and other contributors
Well I feel very stupid, because I realiase that I did not now enough to really preserve this treasure. I did wrap the old ammo box with bubble plastic (also the pistol) for the last few years, but after hearing from you and others, I realise that something special should be done to preserve and take care of the aging problem. The box is still strong, but the paper on the ammo box, as well as the piece acting as the seal, is not in a good condition. I decided to think a bit on everything that I have ecperienced the last few days through the Lugerforum, before moving to the next level. I want to share as much as possible info, and I also still need a lot of information. I will post it in due course. Piet

Piet · 02-16-2009, 04:00 PM

I was thinking to try and clean the outside of the copper casing of the bullets. It looks as if the dark stains can be a kind if oxidation of the copper casing. Should I try it? (see previous) photographs of ammunition and box)
I am still wondering about the preservation of the box as well.
Piet

lugerholsterrepair · 02-16-2009, 05:28 PM

Piet, This is collectable rare ammunition. If you would like to diminish it's value by half and essentially ruin it..clean it right up!
I suggest chuck it in a drill with some steel wool...They will be as shiney as a new penny!

Now on the other hand.. if you want to preserve these precious artifacts that have been entrusted to your care...Gently put them back into the box they came out of and do not molest them further.

Jerry Burney

Piet · 02-17-2009, 06:18 AM

Jerry,
Thanks for the warning. I will tuck it away safely!
Piet

lugerholsterrepair · 02-17-2009, 10:52 AM

Piet, You are a good man and a responsible collector/caretaker. Preserving these artifacts is a big responsibility, thanks for taking it seriously.

Jerry Burney

Edward Tinker · 02-17-2009, 04:01 PM

Jerry, I am glad he reads english well, cuz a non-english speaker may have thought you were serious and cleaned them

Quote:

I suggest chuck it in a drill with some steel wool...They will be as shiney as a new penny!

Ed

lugerholsterrepair · 02-17-2009, 04:23 PM

Ed, I usually throw my ammo in a cement mixer with some nuts & bolts to knock off the hard stuff...saves on labor.
OK..Yer right..I need to stop being a comediun!

Jerry Burney

Piet · 02-19-2009, 06:29 AM

Ed, Jerry,

I had a good laugh, especially about the cement-mixer part!
We thought Africa was a tough country, but we can still learn something from the America's.
I will be off the air till beginning March. (travelling without a lap-top computer)
Piet

Lugerdoc · 02-19-2009, 11:03 AM

Piet, I think that Ed & Jerry are the non-English speakers. Either that or their kids have introduced them to "text-talk" (eg cuz, yer, etc). As an avid BBC listener, I realized years ago, that we Americans, don't really speak true English. Perhaps we should call it "Americance". TH

Piet · 03-01-2009, 02:34 PM

Thomas,
Thanks for the reply. My home language is also not English, and I can make a fool of myself on short notice - hope I can polish up on it while enjoying a great subject - Lugers!
Piet

Piet · 03-08-2009, 01:54 PM

I spent the Sunday afternoon to take some new fotographs.
George, I managed to get the serial numbers of the magazines on a photo. Had to use chalk dust. The one "f" on sn 248 looks a bit flatter than the other one. The man with the punch was maybe looking around at the time.
Hope you can see the sizes you wanted.
The tool was not so easy. I think the marking tool was a bit skew when it hit. It seems as if the mark is deeper on the one side.
I use my imagination an see a "fancy" F with a crown on top - the same as the proof marks on the Luger. The tool is in a very good condition, and I can see the original machining marks on the steel.
I only use the tool to loosen the screws to take of the wooden grips for cleaning inside (Only done that twice in about 10 years) What other use is there?

MFC · 03-08-2009, 02:10 PM

Piet,
The hole in the middle of the tool fits over the follower button on the mag which makes it easier on the thumb to pull down.

Vlim · 03-08-2009, 02:54 PM

Nice, the ammunition appears to have been made at the Spandau state arsenal.

Piet · 03-08-2009, 03:09 PM

Gerben,
Any more information on Spandau? What makes you think that the ammo was manufactured there?
Piet

Vlim · 03-08-2009, 03:15 PM

Piet,

Basically, the 'S' code on the head stamp and the 'S' and 'Sp' references on the labels.

Piet · 03-09-2009, 03:07 PM

It seems as if one has to become a specialist in photography before one can study Lugers. I cannot find any other markings on the magazines (or maybe I haven't loked well enough?) Should there be?
Piet

Vlim · 03-09-2009, 03:16 PM

Piet, the hole in the loading tool can be hooked behind the magazine button. It creates a thumb rest so one can push the magazine spring down using the tool. Really helps loading and unloading the magazine.

02-10-2009, 04:15 PM	#23
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Really a beautiful rig! The condition is amazing. What a piece of history! "With the introduction of the Trommelmagazin in 1917 new 9mm round nose fmj ammo was introduced." I believe the round head bullet was developed for another reason as well..the Allies considered the conical shaped bullet to be a DUMDUM and thusly illegal according to the Geneva Convention. If I am not mistaken this was after the war started. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-16-2009, 04:00 PM	#25
Piet User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South Africa Posts: 143 Thanks: 155 Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts	Old ammunition I was thinking to try and clean the outside of the copper casing of the bullets. It looks as if the dark stains can be a kind if oxidation of the copper casing. Should I try it? (see previous) photographs of ammunition and box) I am still wondering about the preservation of the box as well. Piet

02-16-2009, 05:28 PM	#26
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Piet, This is collectable rare ammunition. If you would like to diminish it's value by half and essentially ruin it..clean it right up! I suggest chuck it in a drill with some steel wool...They will be as shiney as a new penny! Now on the other hand.. if you want to preserve these precious artifacts that have been entrusted to your care...Gently put them back into the box they came out of and do not molest them further. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-17-2009, 10:52 AM	#28
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Piet, You are a good man and a responsible collector/caretaker. Preserving these artifacts is a big responsibility, thanks for taking it seriously. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-17-2009, 04:23 PM	#30
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Ed, I usually throw my ammo in a cement mixer with some nuts & bolts to knock off the hard stuff...saves on labor. OK..Yer right..I need to stop being a comediun! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

02-10-2009, 03:42 PM	#21
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,769 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Piet, the early conical bullets dated March 1914 are very rare. Here in the New World we seldom find anything older than 1917 and these are all FMJ (full metal jacket). With the introduction of the Trommelmagazin in 1917 new 9mm round nose fmj ammo was introduced. The early conical lead bullet ammo and their boxes are super rare. Of course your war down there ended early so what is there predates August 1914.

02-10-2009, 03:57 PM	#22
Piet User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South Africa Posts: 143 Thanks: 155 Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts	Thanks to the guys that looked after the pistol for 98 years! Hope I can give their names

02-12-2009, 03:39 PM	#24
Piet User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South Africa Posts: 143 Thanks: 155 Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts	George, Jan, and other contributors Well I feel very stupid, because I realiase that I did not now enough to really preserve this treasure. I did wrap the old ammo box with bubble plastic (also the pistol) for the last few years, but after hearing from you and others, I realise that something special should be done to preserve and take care of the aging problem. The box is still strong, but the paper on the ammo box, as well as the piece acting as the seal, is not in a good condition. I decided to think a bit on everything that I have ecperienced the last few days through the Lugerforum, before moving to the next level. I want to share as much as possible info, and I also still need a lot of information. I will post it in due course. Piet

02-17-2009, 06:18 AM	#27
Piet User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South Africa Posts: 143 Thanks: 155 Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts	Jerry, Thanks for the warning. I will tuck it away safely! Piet

02-19-2009, 06:29 AM	#31
Piet User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South Africa Posts: 143 Thanks: 155 Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts	Ed, Jerry, I had a good laugh, especially about the cement-mixer part! We thought Africa was a tough country, but we can still learn something from the America's. I will be off the air till beginning March. (travelling without a lap-top computer) Piet

02-19-2009, 11:03 AM	#32
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Piet, I think that Ed & Jerry are the non-English speakers. Either that or their kids have introduced them to "text-talk" (eg cuz, yer, etc). As an avid BBC listener, I realized years ago, that we Americans, don't really speak true English. Perhaps we should call it "Americance". TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-01-2009, 02:34 PM	#33
Piet User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South Africa Posts: 143 Thanks: 155 Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts	Thomas, Thanks for the reply. My home language is also not English, and I can make a fool of myself on short notice - hope I can polish up on it while enjoying a great subject - Lugers! Piet

03-08-2009, 01:54 PM	#34
Piet User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South Africa Posts: 143 Thanks: 155 Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts	New questions from Piet I spent the Sunday afternoon to take some new fotographs. George, I managed to get the serial numbers of the magazines on a photo. Had to use chalk dust. The one "f" on sn 248 looks a bit flatter than the other one. The man with the punch was maybe looking around at the time. Hope you can see the sizes you wanted. The tool was not so easy. I think the marking tool was a bit skew when it hit. It seems as if the mark is deeper on the one side. I use my imagination an see a "fancy" F with a crown on top - the same as the proof marks on the Luger. The tool is in a very good condition, and I can see the original machining marks on the steel. I only use the tool to loosen the screws to take of the wooden grips for cleaning inside (Only done that twice in about 10 years) What other use is there? Attached Thumbnails

03-08-2009, 02:10 PM	#35
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Piet, The hole in the middle of the tool fits over the follower button on the mag which makes it easier on the thumb to pull down. __________________ Mike C.

03-08-2009, 02:54 PM	#36
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	Nice, the ammunition appears to have been made at the Spandau state arsenal.

03-08-2009, 03:09 PM	#37
Piet User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South Africa Posts: 143 Thanks: 155 Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts	Gerben, Any more information on Spandau? What makes you think that the ammo was manufactured there? Piet

03-08-2009, 03:15 PM	#38
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	Piet, Basically, the 'S' code on the head stamp and the 'S' and 'Sp' references on the labels.

03-09-2009, 03:07 PM	#39
Piet User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: South Africa Posts: 143 Thanks: 155 Thanked 35 Times in 22 Posts	Magazine markings It seems as if one has to become a specialist in photography before one can study Lugers. I cannot find any other markings on the magazines (or maybe I haven't loked well enough?) Should there be? Piet

03-09-2009, 03:16 PM	#40
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,032 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,873 Times in 1,184 Posts	Piet, the hole in the loading tool can be hooked behind the magazine button. It creates a thumb rest so one can push the magazine spring down using the tool. Really helps loading and unloading the magazine.