My New 1917 DWM Luger questions - Page 3

DonVoigt · 07-05-2019, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarrelBaggins

I thought the markings on the side was for military DWM?

You are correct, I was looking at the big picture that Doubs posted, and that you commented on- going back to your pictures, the receiver is DWM!

Too dang many pictures, sorry.

Doubs · 07-05-2019, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

The OP frame is definitely Erfurt, it has Erfurt eagle not DWM.
It also has the Erfurt inspection on the trigger guard, something that DWM did not do.

Which I agree with 100%.

WRT the OP's receiver being DWM, my picture of the Erfurt receiver may have caused your confusion between it and the OP's which I apologize for. I was only intending to illustrate another C/RC marking to go along with my expanded RC Commission explanation.

BarrelBaggins · 07-05-2019, 04:08 PM

So what exactly would this Luger really be worth? It has all matching numbers with both matching magazines. It also has the matching tool, matching holster, and the bring back paperwork from WW2 with the matching serial number. Honestly I just love the history of military firearms and wanted to make sure I got something good and legit. I like to collect and shoot what I have!

k98mike · 07-05-2019, 05:00 PM

Values are extremely subjective. The simple answer is "It's worth what someone will pay for it". That being said, with the goodies it comes with; in my OPINION (and others will surly disagree) $2,200-$2,600. It is mismatched. (But a nice rig). M

wlyon · 07-05-2019, 07:51 PM

Since it is mismatched parts it falls in the shooter class. My guess is $1300 to $1400 for all. Bill

BarrelBaggins · 07-05-2019, 08:01 PM

Would it keep value because all the parts are all matching with the last two of the serial number since this pistol was converted for the police? Or is everything pretty much subjective when it comes to value?

Doubs · 07-05-2019, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BarrelBaggins

Would it keep value because all the parts are all matching with the last two of the serial number since this pistol was converted for the police? Or is everything pretty much subjective when it comes to value?

I agree with Bill in general. I'd have said $1200 ~ $1300 for all of it myself.

Some of the "matching" numbers are what's called "forced match", meaning that parts not original to the pistol have been numbered to match. In some cases old numbers have been X'd out or removed and then over-stamped or restamped with the new number. Below is a good example of a side plate that has been force matched to the pistol. (Note that the sear bar is not matching either)

Value aside, you have an interesting Luger with a lot of history behind it. Treasure it for what it is and be pleased to have it. I surely would.

DavidJayUden · 07-05-2019, 11:41 PM

Kind of depends who you ask. One group of collectors will say that the police gun is not "original" and therefore somewhat devalued, whereas the Police Luger aficionados will say that the gun effectively began life when it was reworked for the Police.
So, in the end, it is worth exactly what someone will pay for it.
dju

mrerick · 07-06-2019, 08:29 AM

When collectors refer to a Luger as "matching", it would mean that all the parts on the pistol were on it the day it left the DWM or Erfurt or Mauser or Krieghoff (etc) factory, and that the factory applied the numbers to keep the fitted parts together when the gun was later cleaned or serviced.

During reworks like yours, the armory had the expertise to fit used parts from multiple donor pistols as well as new armory replacement parts to the rework. Thus, they also marked the pistols by obliterating older numbers and adding new "matching" numbers.

The most highly valued Lugers are those that are as close to factory state as possible. Reworks like yours are an exception to some collectors that specialize in Police pistols, and would consider police reworks collectible. There are not that many of these collectors, so the demand is proportionally less as would be the valuations.

An experienced collector knows the characteristics of the numbering applied by factories to the pistols they produced, and can generally identify renumbered or "force matched" pistols as such. There are also experienced fakers that engage in fraudulently marking Lugers to try and boost their value. This is one of the reasons forums of enthusiastic volunteers like the participants in this thread are so valuable and important to the collecting community.

DonVoigt · 07-06-2019, 09:08 AM

"So what exactly would this Luger really be worth?"

Sorry, but there is no "exactly" when it comes to pricing a luger.
The same pistol sold on different venues, different times of the year, or to different buyers will vary greatly in price/value/worth.

For a real life, recent example- someone just paid $7K for a navy luger with problems, that sold a year before at auction for $2400; that was probably $1800 worth (to me) as a collectable shooter!

Your new to you luger is worth exactly what you paid for it. JMHO.

BarrelBaggins · 07-06-2019, 09:11 AM

As long as my Luger has a interesting history (which it seems it’s been through WW1 and been in service for police until WW2) then that’s what makes me happy. I love shooting military firearms. The history is what makes it for me.

By the info everyone has been giving me it seems to have an interesting history so I’m happy with this Luger! Shoots great too. No malfunctions.

k98mike · 07-06-2019, 09:13 AM

As they say; "I gots to know"- What were the "problems"?

rhuff · 07-06-2019, 12:23 PM

Anyone that owns a genuine P08 Luger that functions 100% is a fortunate individual.....enjoy!!

BarrelBaggins · 07-06-2019, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhuff

Anyone that owns a genuine P08 Luger that functions 100% is a fortunate individual.....enjoy!!

People usually have issues with their P08s?

DavidJayUden · 07-06-2019, 03:49 PM

While some seem to eat anything without any problem, others are a bit more picky.
The German soldiers welcomed the P-38 because "they work", and referred to the Luger as an "officers' gun".
Even my most reliable Lugers occasionally need a little bump...
dju

HerrKaiser · 07-06-2019, 03:58 PM

Lugers just require more attention while cleaning and upkeep/preventive maintenance to ensure they work reliably. I can be a bit obsessive over cleanliness and lubrication of my weapons and so I have not had any reliability issues with mine. They are also much more sensitive to bad/worn springs. Also, as is a given, they are all at least ~70 year old guns by now and parts wear and break from use after all that time.

k98mike · 07-06-2019, 04:41 PM

someone just paid $7K for a navy luger with problems, that sold a year before at auction for $2400; that was probably $1800 worth (to me) as a collectable shooter!

What were the issues with the Naval Luger, as I'm considering one and am aware of faking issues. That was my question to Don when I asked what were the "problems" with the Naval he mentioned.

DonVoigt · 07-06-2019, 06:06 PM

Rather than step on this thread, here is the link:
https://luger.gunboards.com/showthre...9-on-Gunbroker

k98mike · 07-06-2019, 06:18 PM

Thanks Don!

07-05-2019, 05:00 PM	#44
k98mike User Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Newnan, GA Posts: 141 Thanks: 280 Thanked 48 Times in 30 Posts	Value Values are extremely subjective. The simple answer is "It's worth what someone will pay for it". That being said, with the goodies it comes with; in my OPINION (and others will surly disagree) $2,200-$2,600. It is mismatched. (But a nice rig). M

07-05-2019, 07:51 PM	#45
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,614 Thanks: 3,140 Thanked 2,519 Times in 939 Posts	Since it is mismatched parts it falls in the shooter class. My guess is $1300 to $1400 for all. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

07-06-2019, 08:29 AM	#49
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	When collectors refer to a Luger as "matching", it would mean that all the parts on the pistol were on it the day it left the DWM or Erfurt or Mauser or Krieghoff (etc) factory, and that the factory applied the numbers to keep the fitted parts together when the gun was later cleaned or serviced. During reworks like yours, the armory had the expertise to fit used parts from multiple donor pistols as well as new armory replacement parts to the rework. Thus, they also marked the pistols by obliterating older numbers and adding new "matching" numbers. The most highly valued Lugers are those that are as close to factory state as possible. Reworks like yours are an exception to some collectors that specialize in Police pistols, and would consider police reworks collectible. There are not that many of these collectors, so the demand is proportionally less as would be the valuations. An experienced collector knows the characteristics of the numbering applied by factories to the pistols they produced, and can generally identify renumbered or "force matched" pistols as such. There are also experienced fakers that engage in fraudulently marking Lugers to try and boost their value. This is one of the reasons forums of enthusiastic volunteers like the participants in this thread are so valuable and important to the collecting community. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

07-06-2019, 09:08 AM	#50
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	"So what exactly would this Luger really be worth?" Sorry, but there is no "exactly" when it comes to pricing a luger. The same pistol sold on different venues, different times of the year, or to different buyers will vary greatly in price/value/worth. For a real life, recent example- someone just paid $7K for a navy luger with problems, that sold a year before at auction for $2400; that was probably $1800 worth (to me) as a collectable shooter! Your new to you luger is worth exactly what you paid for it. JMHO. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

07-06-2019, 09:13 AM	#52
k98mike User Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Newnan, GA Posts: 141 Thanks: 280 Thanked 48 Times in 30 Posts	Curious As they say; "I gots to know"- What were the "problems"?

07-05-2019, 04:08 PM	#43
BarrelBaggins User Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 23 Thanks: 22 Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts	So what exactly would this Luger really be worth? It has all matching numbers with both matching magazines. It also has the matching tool, matching holster, and the bring back paperwork from WW2 with the matching serial number. Honestly I just love the history of military firearms and wanted to make sure I got something good and legit. I like to collect and shoot what I have!

07-05-2019, 08:01 PM	#46
BarrelBaggins User Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 23 Thanks: 22 Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts	Would it keep value because all the parts are all matching with the last two of the serial number since this pistol was converted for the police? Or is everything pretty much subjective when it comes to value?

07-05-2019, 11:41 PM	#48
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Kind of depends who you ask. One group of collectors will say that the police gun is not "original" and therefore somewhat devalued, whereas the Police Luger aficionados will say that the gun effectively began life when it was reworked for the Police. So, in the end, it is worth exactly what someone will pay for it. dju

07-06-2019, 09:11 AM	#51
BarrelBaggins User Join Date: Jul 2019 Posts: 23 Thanks: 22 Thanked 10 Times in 5 Posts	As long as my Luger has a interesting history (which it seems it’s been through WW1 and been in service for police until WW2) then that’s what makes me happy. I love shooting military firearms. The history is what makes it for me. By the info everyone has been giving me it seems to have an interesting history so I’m happy with this Luger! Shoots great too. No malfunctions.

07-06-2019, 12:23 PM	#53
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,270 Thanks: 2,686 Thanked 958 Times in 704 Posts	Anyone that owns a genuine P08 Luger that functions 100% is a fortunate individual.....enjoy!! __________________ Need DWM breechblock #21

07-06-2019, 03:49 PM	#55
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	While some seem to eat anything without any problem, others are a bit more picky. The German soldiers welcomed the P-38 because "they work", and referred to the Luger as an "officers' gun". Even my most reliable Lugers occasionally need a little bump... dju

07-06-2019, 03:58 PM	#56
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 800 Thanks: 750 Thanked 793 Times in 376 Posts	Lugers just require more attention while cleaning and upkeep/preventive maintenance to ensure they work reliably. I can be a bit obsessive over cleanliness and lubrication of my weapons and so I have not had any reliability issues with mine. They are also much more sensitive to bad/worn springs. Also, as is a given, they are all at least ~70 year old guns by now and parts wear and break from use after all that time. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

07-06-2019, 04:41 PM	#57
k98mike User Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Newnan, GA Posts: 141 Thanks: 280 Thanked 48 Times in 30 Posts	someone just paid $7K for a navy luger with problems, that sold a year before at auction for $2400; that was probably $1800 worth (to me) as a collectable shooter! What were the issues with the Naval Luger, as I'm considering one and am aware of faking issues. That was my question to Don when I asked what were the "problems" with the Naval he mentioned.

07-06-2019, 06:06 PM	#58
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,677 Thanks: 1,439 Thanked 4,347 Times in 2,038 Posts	Rather than step on this thread, here is the link: https://luger.gunboards.com/showthre...9-on-Gunbroker __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

07-06-2019, 06:18 PM	#59
k98mike User Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Newnan, GA Posts: 141 Thanks: 280 Thanked 48 Times in 30 Posts	Thanks Don!