Firing pin cracked

[Geo99]

I was not sure where to post this, but I figured it would fit here.

I bought a Luger to shoot. I took it completely apart to make sure it was OK to shoot, and to clean it (like most guns I buy, it was filthy inside). Anyway I got the firing pin out and cleaned all the gunk off and boy was I glad I did. Take a look at what I found - I'm glad I didn't shoot it like that!

So now I have to get a new firing pin, but I'll keep the cracked one because it is a numbers matching gun. Just the finish is worn to about 80%.

- Geo

[G.T.]

Thanks for the post on the faulty pin... but, it would have broken, and just failed to fire, as the firing pin spring would push the rear part back...hence, no spring tension, no snap to the primer.... !!...... I have original, WW1 & WW2, replacement firing pins available for $35.00 let me know if I can be of help... Other than me, Lugerdoc can certainly take care of your problem!!... best to you, til...lat'r....GT

[G.T.]

Follow up note! No disrespect intended, but, that is one ugly ass firing pin to start with??... Never seen one that crude... looks hand made?... Let me know if I can help.... GT....

[DavidJayUden]

As my wood shop teacher was so fond of saying (to me): "I could do better work with a chainsaw..."
dju

[ithacaartist]

This firing pin does look weird. The front end appears to have no problem, but the rear, unrelieved portion of its cylinder has been doodled with, filed, smoothed off, or whatever, with a file, maybe to remove a burr--though how one would develop there in the first place is a mystery.

[mrerick]

This pin has the fluting cuts of a WW-II Mauser firing pin. That's quite a battering it's taken. Something hard and sharp has been rubbing that firing pin. How does the rest of the action, receiver and frame look? What does the sear lever look like? In failure, if it were cocked with a round in the chamber, and the front end of the pin separated from the sear portion, you would have had a discharge. That's one good reason for always keeping a firearm pointed in a safe direction!

[sheepherder]

The front and middle sections look engine [lathe] turned; the ass end looks quite a bit like the Luger-style barrel bands that I do using an end mill and my rotary indexing head...

...Reinforcing Gerry's comment about it looking crude/hand made...

[alanint]

The presence of a serial number ending, if size and font correct, would indicate that someone tried to repair the original firing pin by turning a sleeve that was added to the rear of the original FP. Poor adhesion technique or other factor might have later cracked the FP at the repair joint.

[Geo99]

The pin is from a Nazi reworked 1918 Luger. The serial num matches and is same font as the other reworked parts (grips and toggle axle). I too have never seen one so rough.

The rest of the gun looks fine as far as mechanical condition.

GT - thanks for the offer - I just found a repro firing pin in my box of stuff, so OK for now to shoot it.

Interesting point about it being repair job - because the front part looks just fine and original, but the back part is messed up. There is nothing I can see that would cause such rough wear to the pin. The pin was cold blued so that is why it looks so clean after I took the blue off. Someone may have blued it to cover the repair.

- Geo

[Geo99]

Marc - "That's one good reason for always keeping a firearm pointed in a safe direction!"

I always do. I have had unexpected discharge from guns I was holding a couple of times in my life. Not fun.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Geo99

Marc - "That's one good reason for always keeping a firearm pointed in a safe direction!"

I always do. I have had unexpected discharge from guns I was holding a couple of times in my life. Not fun.

Same here. I had a wartime P38 discharge when I used the de-cocking/safety lever. Fired a round into the inner door panel of my Chevy station wagon. Interestingly, the 9mm bullet did not penetrate the outer door skin. It hit a window riser arm and left a dent, but did not impede function of the window riser. I took the door apart when I junked the car, but couldn't find the bullet...

I no longer trust slide safeties or de-cocking levers on any pistol.

[MikeP]

Learned early on to distrust them P 38s.

I put a round into the floor of the old farmhouse I was raised in.

I was 16. My Grandmother was not pleased.

[Alx]

Ithacaartist, IIRC, the firing pin spring does not push back on the rear of the firing pin. The spring pushes forward on it, fitting inside the cup at the back of the pin. The sear bar holds the pin back by engaging the part that sticks out sideways, but the spring always is pushing the pin forwards. That's how a faulty sear can cause chainfire, with nothing to keep the pin from riding with the bolt forward.

[G.T.]

Hi Alex, you are correct in the observation that the spring pushes forward on the front of the firing pin.... but, it also pushes back... so, what does that mean you might ask... well, we are all assuming that two things are going to occur at once, and that is that the pin is going to just randomly break from a static position, and secondly, once broken the spring would exert enough tension to slam fire like an open bolt type set up... well, here's what really happens, (disclaimer, MOST of the time!! Anything is possible!)... The pistol in normal cocked firing position shows no indication of a pending malfunction... you fire the shot, the breechblock locks closed and the firing pin falls as normal, and the gun goes off. Upon discharge shock, is when the failure occurs, and upon recoil the pin separates. so the front half of the now two piece pin stays forward in the front half of the breechblock, while the rear part goes back normally into what used to be a cocked and as yet disconnected position... The Breechblock comes forward, but the firing pin spring being 100% extended, (WRONG! it is compressed as normally contained, but not cocked) just closed on the loaded chamber as it would normally??? But, no click, no bang?? That because the spring is pushing back on the rear half (WRONG! pushing back on the retainer, same result, wrong terminology!) as well as pushing forward on the front half....... it would seem it should go off, but it doesn't??? It just doesn't have enough spring tension to overcome the primer skin... Now, that being said, I would bet anyone's life on it, but after have two failures of this type with the very same results, I think the chance of full auto or additional discharge are remote... (Thank God, or it would certainly have happen to me!!) Best to all, til....lat'r....GT

[Alx]

I still don't get how or if at all the spring is ever pushing back on the firing pin.

What part of the firing pin is the spring ever pushing "back" on ?

There is only one coil spring for the firing pin, and it fits into the firing pin's cup at the rear. Inside the bolt, the pin is inserted from the rear, then the spring goes in, then the spring is trapped between the firing pin and the spring retainer, which bayonets into the bolt at the rear. The spring can't pull the pin back, because it is not attached. There is no other spring to push back on it. Even if the pin broke in half, there would no way for the spring to be pushing any part of the firing pin back towards the rear of the gun.
No ?

My comment on the chain-fire phenom was not really to the point of the OP, .... I just threw it in to elaborate on the spring thing.

[alanint]

Axl,
You are correct. If the rear area of this firing pin had sheared off, the gun would have fired from pressure pushing the balance of the pin forward, not back, since the firing pin retained is held fixed inside the breech block. The rear portion of the FP may have been held by the sear, but the front portion would have traveled along with the breech block and caused a slam fire and most likely a full-auto dump since the FP would have protruded from the breech block under spring pressure.

[sheepherder]

Gerry, I think you should hacksaw a firing pin and videotape the demonstration! Inquiring minds want to know!

...With a full magazine...

[John Sabato]

...Just use a Nambu... no hack saw necessary... (sorry I just couldn't resist!)

[G.T.]

Hi Alx, and Alanint, and all... you are correct in that the spring pushes back against the firing pin retainer when fully compressed and with an un-broken pin... I was over generalizing on that point, as I only meant to illustrate that the rear half of the pin stays back with out the ability to utilize any type of energy to go forward, (my bad!)...... as in, the part, of the now two piece pin, with the sear notch won't go forward, whether held back or slid back, as it has nothing to propel it?? (CORRECT) The back half has essentially become a notched tube... But, you are incorrect when you state the spring pushes ahead on the forward part of the broken pin. (WRONG, I was incorrect! it still has some preload) In essence, with a broken pin, it is fully extended, un-contained, (WRONG! has some tension) and pushes or hold the front part forward. (CORRECT) with a broken pin it has far less preload then with a good pin and cocked? ...Now, if we can see the same thing on what is posted above, (I NOW SEE YOUR POINTS, CAN YOU SEE MINE?) you then will see the rest of what I describe is correct. The gun will not fire, because of the (NEAR) full length spring does NOT exert enough force on the front part of the pin, and there is little kinetic energy (1/2 pin, (NEARLY) full length (SLIGHTLY) compressed spring? Short pin movement, maybe .050"?), to ignite the primer when slammed shut.. also, you will not hear any click as there is NO mechanical movement of any, or either, part of the firing pin, as it is already either fully pushed forward under WEAK spring tension, or held back by the sear because of no spring tension against the rear half of the broken pin?? (sear bar moves, back half of the pin doesn't.... ) So, in essence, the FP spring becomes a shock absorber of sorts, (CORRECT) allowing the front part of the broken pin to push back slightly, instead of denting the primer cup... NOW!! If the firing pin breaks irregularly, and for some odd reason, a shard of broken pin jams the forward part of the pin fully into the breechblock, then we have a different animal entirely!
So, I still maintain, the gun will not click, and the round will not fire in the vast majorities of firing pin full separation failures.. .. BTW, both pins I had, broke in half at exactly the same place.. righ in the middle where it was numbered, and both were WW1, and, to make matters worse, each time, I cycled the gun several times to try and get it to work thinking it was a common sear or trigger lever issue... Nothing I tried would make it fire!!... Had to put a pin in it... plain and simple... "Nothing is ever as it seems!" Best to all, til...lat'r....GT

[alanint]

Interesting. I would have guessed it would work like the independent firing pin on an MP40 Bolt and fired the cartridge via inertia, at least.