Collector grade question

jagervw · 10-10-2013, 11:22 PM

How durable is strawing on the earlier guns? I always clean my guns after shooting...I understand the salts from our skin can mar a finish, but would one go to the length of using gloves to avoid it all together?

If one wears gloves is he deemed a prissy fellow?

Thoughts?

Edward Tinker · 10-10-2013, 11:31 PM

You shoot your collector grade guns?

jagervw · 10-10-2013, 11:44 PM

Would one drive a 1960's Ferrari GTO or a 1973 Porsche 911 on the street? Some would some wouldn't.

For those whom shoot their irreplaceable items, would you suggest gloves or no?

Ron Wood · 10-11-2013, 12:34 AM

To wear gloves or not to wear gloves is kind of moot. If you shoot an irreplaceable item and break a numbered part the loss of a little finish kind of becomes inconsequential, doesn't it? Weigh one risk against the other and take your choice.

alvin · 10-11-2013, 06:17 AM

I fired 200 rounds from this R9 (detail see shooting column). It's my collector, the condition was VG+ to Exec-. The safety lever broke during the process. The lever on this variation is unnumbered, that's fortunate, but finding a replacement lever is not a very trivial task and will take time -- there are parts donor guns, but usually when a gun starts give away parts, it's in poor shape and the safety lever's condition does not match this gun's condition. Of course, future replacement lever must be period correct, that limits the searching scope.. and,,,, cost, cost, cost,,,, there are many nice guns with nice levers, but they are high cost and their levers are not donors. Temporarily, I put a Bolo lever on it, which does not work well. So, even broke a unnumbered part will create lots of searching work.

kzullick · 10-11-2013, 06:26 AM

If in your mind it makes you a prissy fellow than I guess it does. Others wouldn't have a problem with it. I use a product call feed n wax on my collector guns and never have any issues with occasional handling of them.

mrerick · 10-11-2013, 10:02 AM

After shooting any handgun, I spray it with a preserving gun oil like RemOil and wipe it down with a soft cloth. This helps remove fingerprints, and leaves a coating that can help eliminate finish problems. I also store guns in bore store type products. They are a silicone impregnated woven sock that helps repel moisture.

Straw is one of several methods of establishing an iron oxide coating on metal surfaces. Like rust bluing, salt bluing, nitre bluing and flame bluing the objective is to form an oxide other than rust (Fe2O3). Since the surface is oxidized once it won't be oxidized a second time in the same spots, preserving the surface.

Straw is not an applied coating. When, over time, other oxides form on a strawed surface they are much more visible because they are almost always dark in color.

Good article on iron oxidation is at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust

Arizona Slim · 10-11-2013, 11:36 AM

When I handle my firearms I normally wear gloves (cotton) and when I don't I do as Marc (mrerick) does and that is to spray the metal surface with RemOil and wipe down with a soft cloth being careful to keep the preservative away from the wood. I also keep a small dehumidifier in my gun safe such as an Eva-Dry and I have never experienced a problem. The importance of a small dehumidifier became apparent when I checked on some papers that I had stored in another safe without the benefit of one and moister was noticeable on them.
Lesson learned.

Lon

John Sabato · 10-11-2013, 12:11 PM

Alvin, have you considered having the broken part repaired/restored by a competent gunsmith or restorer of fine firearms? Thor or policeluger come to mind... that would retain your originality as much as possible... and depending on the kind of breakage, the repair might be invisible... just a thought...

rhuff · 10-11-2013, 04:23 PM

If you shoot at an outdoor range where large magnum handguns are fired, it is quite common to see these shooters wearing gloves. They wear them to aid in the recoil "pain", not to preserve the finish, but gloves are gloves.

alvin · 10-11-2013, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

Alvin, have you considered having the broken part repaired/restored by a competent gunsmith or restorer of fine firearms?

The safety lever is a little bit hard. This lever has a flat spring in the front, which is thin and fragile, and it broke there.

Since it's unnumbered, I will try to find a replacement first.

Tony Min · 10-12-2013, 03:39 PM

It is kind of funny. in one thread "we" say you can't shoot your collector gun, and in another "we" say what a shame they deactivated your collector gun.
If you are not going to shoot it, deactivation doesn't really matter.

I know, I know what you are going to say.

My Luger though matching is not really collectable due to minor finish issues. But my BYF 42 P38 is matching and rare. Tomorrow I will put some more rounds through it though. And then clean and preserve it like I always do.

Anyway, the whole no shooting collectors keeps me torn.

lugerholsterrepair · 10-12-2013, 04:10 PM

I wear golfing gloves when I shoot. They are thin leather on the fingers giving good tactile feel for loading and handeling. They not only keep hand sweat/salts off my pistols but keep my hands clean. Any session where you load & fire 500 rounds or so is incredibly dirty.

I won't go into how incredibly stupid it is to fire collector grade all matching pistols when cheap shooter grades are so easily available..It's always taken the wrong way. People get the impression I think they are morons.

cirelaw · 10-12-2013, 05:39 PM

I'm up to 12 and I'm still a Luger Virgin~~I wondered how many lugers does the average luger collector have?

Ron Wood · 10-12-2013, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cirelaw

I wondered how many lugers does the average luger collector have?

Always at least one less than they would like to have

cirelaw · 10-12-2013, 06:33 PM

13th Comandment,, 'Thou shalt not covett thy neighbors' luger collection'!!

SteveM · 10-12-2013, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

Always at least one less than they would like to have

And always scheming about how to add that one more.

Tony Min · 10-12-2013, 08:09 PM

I think it's nice to have an opinion and to feel strongly about something. But calling people stupid is taking it a little far.
I got into collecting because I like guns and I like to shoot them. I always wanted a Luger and now have my first one. I love it and it shoots great but the finish is below collector grade though all matching numbers. So you will be happy it is a shooter.
When I found my P38 I was looking for a shooter and accidentally bought a nice collector piece for $450 and I am shooting it. I had no idea it is actually a desirable gun for collecting. I am careful with it, keep it perfectly maintained and I am going to shoot it.
I will be buying more Lugers. I will shoot them all. I doubt I will buy any for more than a few thousand. But like with my P38 I might get lucky and find a good one.
Next on my list are a wartime 1911 and a Walther PP. Yup, gonna shoot them.
I guess I am a moron. But a happy one...

lugerholsterrepair · 10-12-2013, 08:14 PM

That's why I said I won't go into how incredibly stupid it is. It's always taken the wrong way. You try to explain these things and no one understands!

Tony Min · 10-12-2013, 08:20 PM

I won't argue with you. But you already said how incredibly stupid it is. I am a grown man and made an informed decision.
You know they fired the million dollar Luger some years back right? Don't think I would have done that.
So just because one person makes a different decision from another. They are not stupid or a moron. They just have a different opinion.

10-10-2013, 11:22 PM	#1
jagervw User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: S. Florida Posts: 47 Thanks: 52 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Collector grade question How durable is strawing on the earlier guns? I always clean my guns after shooting...I understand the salts from our skin can mar a finish, but would one go to the length of using gloves to avoid it all together? If one wears gloves is he deemed a prissy fellow? Thoughts?

10-10-2013, 11:31 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,909 Thanks: 1,986 Thanked 4,500 Times in 2,076 Posts	You shoot your collector grade guns? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-11-2013, 12:34 AM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	To wear gloves or not to wear gloves is kind of moot. If you shoot an irreplaceable item and break a numbered part the loss of a little finish kind of becomes inconsequential, doesn't it? Weigh one risk against the other and take your choice. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction Last edited by Ron Wood; 10-11-2013 at 10:38 AM.

10-11-2013, 06:17 AM	#5
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I fired 200 rounds from this R9 (detail see shooting column). It's my collector, the condition was VG+ to Exec-. The safety lever broke during the process. The lever on this variation is unnumbered, that's fortunate, but finding a replacement lever is not a very trivial task and will take time -- there are parts donor guns, but usually when a gun starts give away parts, it's in poor shape and the safety lever's condition does not match this gun's condition. Of course, future replacement lever must be period correct, that limits the searching scope.. and,,,, cost, cost, cost,,,, there are many nice guns with nice levers, but they are high cost and their levers are not donors. Temporarily, I put a Bolo lever on it, which does not work well. So, even broke a unnumbered part will create lots of searching work. Attached Images

10-11-2013, 10:02 AM	#7
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,900 Thanks: 1,370 Thanked 3,094 Times in 1,503 Posts	After shooting any handgun, I spray it with a preserving gun oil like RemOil and wipe it down with a soft cloth. This helps remove fingerprints, and leaves a coating that can help eliminate finish problems. I also store guns in bore store type products. They are a silicone impregnated woven sock that helps repel moisture. Straw is one of several methods of establishing an iron oxide coating on metal surfaces. Like rust bluing, salt bluing, nitre bluing and flame bluing the objective is to form an oxide other than rust (Fe2O3). Since the surface is oxidized once it won't be oxidized a second time in the same spots, preserving the surface. Straw is not an applied coating. When, over time, other oxides form on a strawed surface they are much more visible because they are almost always dark in color. Good article on iron oxidation is at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rust __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

10-10-2013, 11:44 PM	#3
jagervw User Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: S. Florida Posts: 47 Thanks: 52 Thanked 26 Times in 13 Posts	Would one drive a 1960's Ferrari GTO or a 1973 Porsche 911 on the street? Some would some wouldn't. For those whom shoot their irreplaceable items, would you suggest gloves or no?

10-11-2013, 06:26 AM	#6
kzullick Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: East Berwick, Pennsylvania Posts: 227 Thanks: 609 Thanked 100 Times in 81 Posts	If in your mind it makes you a prissy fellow than I guess it does. Others wouldn't have a problem with it. I use a product call feed n wax on my collector guns and never have any issues with occasional handling of them.

10-11-2013, 11:36 AM	#8
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	When I handle my firearms I normally wear gloves (cotton) and when I don't I do as Marc (mrerick) does and that is to spray the metal surface with RemOil and wipe down with a soft cloth being careful to keep the preservative away from the wood. I also keep a small dehumidifier in my gun safe such as an Eva-Dry and I have never experienced a problem. The importance of a small dehumidifier became apparent when I checked on some papers that I had stored in another safe without the benefit of one and moister was noticeable on them. Lesson learned. Lon

10-11-2013, 12:11 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Alvin, have you considered having the broken part repaired/restored by a competent gunsmith or restorer of fine firearms? Thor or policeluger come to mind... that would retain your originality as much as possible... and depending on the kind of breakage, the repair might be invisible... just a thought... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-11-2013, 04:23 PM	#10
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,270 Thanks: 2,686 Thanked 958 Times in 704 Posts	If you shoot at an outdoor range where large magnum handguns are fired, it is quite common to see these shooters wearing gloves. They wear them to aid in the recoil "pain", not to preserve the finish, but gloves are gloves.

10-12-2013, 03:39 PM	#12
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	It is kind of funny. in one thread "we" say you can't shoot your collector gun, and in another "we" say what a shame they deactivated your collector gun. If you are not going to shoot it, deactivation doesn't really matter. I know, I know what you are going to say. My Luger though matching is not really collectable due to minor finish issues. But my BYF 42 P38 is matching and rare. Tomorrow I will put some more rounds through it though. And then clean and preserve it like I always do. Anyway, the whole no shooting collectors keeps me torn.

10-12-2013, 04:10 PM	#13
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	I wear golfing gloves when I shoot. They are thin leather on the fingers giving good tactile feel for loading and handeling. They not only keep hand sweat/salts off my pistols but keep my hands clean. Any session where you load & fire 500 rounds or so is incredibly dirty. I won't go into how incredibly stupid it is to fire collector grade all matching pistols when cheap shooter grades are so easily available..It's always taken the wrong way. People get the impression I think they are morons. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-12-2013, 05:39 PM	#14
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	I'm up to 12 and I'm still a Luger Virgin~~I wondered how many lugers does the average luger collector have?

10-12-2013, 06:33 PM	#16
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,133 Times in 2,173 Posts	13th Comandment,, 'Thou shalt not covett thy neighbors' luger collection'!!

10-12-2013, 08:09 PM	#18
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	I think it's nice to have an opinion and to feel strongly about something. But calling people stupid is taking it a little far. I got into collecting because I like guns and I like to shoot them. I always wanted a Luger and now have my first one. I love it and it shoots great but the finish is below collector grade though all matching numbers. So you will be happy it is a shooter. When I found my P38 I was looking for a shooter and accidentally bought a nice collector piece for $450 and I am shooting it. I had no idea it is actually a desirable gun for collecting. I am careful with it, keep it perfectly maintained and I am going to shoot it. I will be buying more Lugers. I will shoot them all. I doubt I will buy any for more than a few thousand. But like with my P38 I might get lucky and find a good one. Next on my list are a wartime 1911 and a Walther PP. Yup, gonna shoot them. I guess I am a moron. But a happy one...

10-12-2013, 08:14 PM	#19
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	That's why I said I won't go into how incredibly stupid it is. It's always taken the wrong way. You try to explain these things and no one understands! __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-12-2013, 08:20 PM	#20
Tony Min User Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 169 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts	I won't argue with you. But you already said how incredibly stupid it is. I am a grown man and made an informed decision. You know they fired the million dollar Luger some years back right? Don't think I would have done that. So just because one person makes a different decision from another. They are not stupid or a moron. They just have a different opinion.