Clark/Thor Heavy Barrel Target Luger

Thor · 01-09-2003, 02:14 PM

Hugh just sent me a 4" bull barrel target Luger to rust blue. This little sweety will be test fired for accuracy and I believe he intends to sell it. Base shooter is a mismatched 1939 S/42 Mauser. Barrel has NO TAPER and has a diameter of around 8/10". This should be a real shooter, the barrel is stock new. I think he has some other target ammenities to add, he talked about a trigger stop to reduce travel. Kinda reminds me when Ruger took their standard twenty two and put a heavy barrel on it. Standing in the offhand position, the gun really holds steady! Keep an eye out for this one in a few weeks.

Hugh · 01-10-2003, 12:14 AM

We also have a 6" bull bbl in the works. This gun feels heavy when you pick it up, but holds very steady when you aim it, no "light muzzle wobble" here! Plan on putting both guns on Gunbroker after Ted's refinish, a trigger tuneup, and sight in.

AGE · 01-11-2003, 12:03 AM

Hugh,

What kind of sights are on these Lugers? Have you done any trigger work?

Hugh · 01-11-2003, 01:58 AM

Al,

Front sight will be a Marbles or Lyman gold or ivory bead, rear sight notch filed into a "U" shape. I am smoothing and tightening the trigger pull to remove much of the slack and give a smooth let off.

Hugh

AGE · 01-11-2003, 12:50 PM

Hugh,

Sign me up if you can recess a good modern adjustable sight into the toggle. I don't care for the long overhang on the S&W sight on your Armadillo gun.

Since our last communication, I've been examining adjustable rear sights with the dream of adapting them to the Luger toggle without a lot of overhang to the rear. The Luger toggle link is only about 1" long by 0.5" wide. The movable part of a Bomar sight is about 1.3" long and might work well (with a small overhang) but it is 0.45" wide, probably too wide to be recessed into the toggle. The S&W sight is only 0.25" wide but 2.7" long. It might work OK if the flexible part were high strength spring steel which could be shortened to 1" or so, but I don't think it is.

Brownells doesn't have anything that looks promising. Colt put a very compact adjustable sight on their pre-war national match .45s. It would be great if you could get one of these (probably way too much expense).

Oh well, just dreaming--that's a lot easier than producing hardware as you and Ted do. Keep up the good work.

Hugh · 01-11-2003, 08:04 PM

Al,

I have several different adjustable sights (Bomar, Micro, Meg Gar, S&W & MMC). So far the old style MMC for the 1911 looks the most promising. I have managed to accumulate a half dozen or so of these. I have dovetailed one of these into a rear toggle and it seems to be working ok.
<img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" />
I haven't decided whether to try to add this option to these two guns or not.

AGE · 01-11-2003, 11:42 PM

Hugh,

How about E-mailing me or posting a picture of the MMC on a Luger toggle (if it's not too much trouble)?

HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr · 01-20-2003, 04:58 PM

I have installed a number of Bomarsigths on the lugertoggles and that works great.
But there is a overhang, but I do really belive that no other adjusatble sight can take the pounding and the stress from the lugertoggle.
IT's much more severe than the stress from a 1911 slide.

http://www.vapensmedjan.com/customluger_4.htm

Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

AGE · 01-20-2003, 11:38 PM

Sorry Hakan, that's not what I am looking for. Thanks for posting your Bomar/Luger pictures anyway.

AGE · 01-22-2003, 12:22 AM

Rick,

Can you post some pictures. I like the idea of a shortened S&W sight recessed into the toggle. Perhaps it could be adjusted for elevation by mounting a screw below it at the back end with a relatively large head. This would be accessed through a smaller hole. It could be attached at the front end by a screw similar to the original attachment screw. Then to change elevation, one would loosen the front screw, turn the screw under the sight by reaching through the hole, then tighten the front sight which would also serve as a lock screw.

AGE · 01-22-2003, 03:11 PM

Rick,

Sounds like your interests and mine are similar. I would like to see a scan of your whole gun with this sight. Yes, a grooved toggle seems desirable to me. I suppose a set of shims to mount under the sight might be another (crude) way to get an elevation adjustment.

I love the installation on my 1911 by Bob Day about 20 years ago. The end product is no more bulky than the stock sight, but obviously more fragile than the stock sight. I can live with that since I don't plan to drop it, but I'll fix it if I do.

John Sabato · 01-22-2003, 04:59 PM

Rick... very interesting... please post a photo of your rear sight installation for the engineer in all of us...

thanks...

HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr · 01-22-2003, 06:45 PM

MAny problems with adjustable sights on toggles comes up after some thousands rounds.
SIghts get sloppy and with a big play and suddenly they just crack.

I have had a bomar destroyed to but not as fast as some other sights. And i have installed a number of Bomars.

The smartest thing would probably be to have the elevation in the front sight and the windage in the rearsight and that way both make a pretty rear sight and much more sturdy sight.

Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

AGE · 01-23-2003, 12:03 AM

Guys,

I finally got around to examing the reat sight on my Ruger .44. It is only about an inch long and the forward part is 5/16" wide. It looks possible to recess this into a Luger toggle. What do you think?

HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr · 01-23-2003, 12:50 AM

We once tried the well made sigth from Bowen.
Those are made to fit direktly into a rugerrevolver and they are wery well made.

But it didnt take many rounds to ruin the sight so i think its better to not try.
It's also difficult to install one without an overhang.

Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

Dwight Gruber · 01-23-2003, 01:15 AM

HÃ?Â¥kan,

If you can tell us, what are the dynamics involved in these failures?

--Dwight

HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr · 01-24-2003, 06:07 PM

On a 1911 slide the sights just goes back and forward again, in a .44 magnum revolver there is almost no tough forces as all as everything happends so slowly.

But a luger pistol is problably the 9mm pistol that have the fastest cycle time of all semiautos because the parts are so low weight and the recoilspring is so heavy.
When installing a adj. sight on the toggle it tipps back and forward extremely fast and this movement is extremely difficult for a sigth.

Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

AGE · 01-25-2003, 12:18 AM

Hakan,

You may well be right. Still, it should be possible to design a sight that would work. I am a mechanical engineer and I can imagine what some of your results were. Can you post any details or pictures?

Nevertheless, it should be possible to make a GOOD copy of a Ruger sight from titanium or Inconel that would hold up (of course I probably wouldn't want to pay for it). If they just broke, the metal is probably some junk casting.

AGE · 01-25-2003, 03:31 PM

I forgot to add something about the attaching method. I suspect the attaching screw may be a problem, if not that, then any threaded hole in the toggle might strip. Also, pins used in elevation systems could be weak points.

Thor · 01-25-2003, 03:42 PM

It is shame that a front adjustable sight wouldnt work, all Luger barrels have dove tails and most sights work with those.

01-09-2003, 02:14 PM	#1
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Clark/Thor Heavy Barrel Target Luger Hugh just sent me a 4" bull barrel target Luger to rust blue. This little sweety will be test fired for accuracy and I believe he intends to sell it. Base shooter is a mismatched 1939 S/42 Mauser. Barrel has NO TAPER and has a diameter of around 8/10". This should be a real shooter, the barrel is stock new. I think he has some other target ammenities to add, he talked about a trigger stop to reduce travel. Kinda reminds me when Ruger took their standard twenty two and put a heavy barrel on it. Standing in the offhand position, the gun really holds steady! Keep an eye out for this one in a few weeks. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

01-10-2003, 12:14 AM	#2
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	We also have a 6" bull bbl in the works. This gun feels heavy when you pick it up, but holds very steady when you aim it, no "light muzzle wobble" here! Plan on putting both guns on Gunbroker after Ted's refinish, a trigger tuneup, and sight in. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

01-11-2003, 12:03 AM	#3
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hugh, What kind of sights are on these Lugers? Have you done any trigger work? __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

01-11-2003, 01:58 AM	#4
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Al, Front sight will be a Marbles or Lyman gold or ivory bead, rear sight notch filed into a "U" shape. I am smoothing and tightening the trigger pull to remove much of the slack and give a smooth let off. Hugh __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

01-11-2003, 12:50 PM	#5
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hugh, Sign me up if you can recess a good modern adjustable sight into the toggle. I don't care for the long overhang on the S&W sight on your Armadillo gun. Since our last communication, I've been examining adjustable rear sights with the dream of adapting them to the Luger toggle without a lot of overhang to the rear. The Luger toggle link is only about 1" long by 0.5" wide. The movable part of a Bomar sight is about 1.3" long and might work well (with a small overhang) but it is 0.45" wide, probably too wide to be recessed into the toggle. The S&W sight is only 0.25" wide but 2.7" long. It might work OK if the flexible part were high strength spring steel which could be shortened to 1" or so, but I don't think it is. Brownells doesn't have anything that looks promising. Colt put a very compact adjustable sight on their pre-war national match .45s. It would be great if you could get one of these (probably way too much expense). Oh well, just dreaming--that's a lot easier than producing hardware as you and Ted do. Keep up the good work. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

01-11-2003, 08:04 PM	#6
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 165 Times in 64 Posts	Al, I have several different adjustable sights (Bomar, Micro, Meg Gar, S&W & MMC). So far the old style MMC for the 1911 looks the most promising. I have managed to accumulate a half dozen or so of these. I have dovetailed one of these into a rear toggle and it seems to be working ok. <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" /> I haven't decided whether to try to add this option to these two guns or not. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

01-11-2003, 11:42 PM	#7
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hugh, How about E-mailing me or posting a picture of the MMC on a Luger toggle (if it's not too much trouble)? __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

01-20-2003, 04:58 PM	#8
HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 282 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have installed a number of Bomarsigths on the lugertoggles and that works great. But there is a overhang, but I do really belive that no other adjusatble sight can take the pounding and the stress from the lugertoggle. IT's much more severe than the stress from a 1911 slide. http://www.vapensmedjan.com/customluger_4.htm Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

01-20-2003, 11:38 PM	#9
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Sorry Hakan, that's not what I am looking for. Thanks for posting your Bomar/Luger pictures anyway. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

01-22-2003, 12:22 AM	#10
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Rick, Can you post some pictures. I like the idea of a shortened S&W sight recessed into the toggle. Perhaps it could be adjusted for elevation by mounting a screw below it at the back end with a relatively large head. This would be accessed through a smaller hole. It could be attached at the front end by a screw similar to the original attachment screw. Then to change elevation, one would loosen the front screw, turn the screw under the sight by reaching through the hole, then tighten the front sight which would also serve as a lock screw. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

01-22-2003, 03:11 PM	#11
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Rick, Sounds like your interests and mine are similar. I would like to see a scan of your whole gun with this sight. Yes, a grooved toggle seems desirable to me. I suppose a set of shims to mount under the sight might be another (crude) way to get an elevation adjustment. I love the installation on my 1911 by Bob Day about 20 years ago. The end product is no more bulky than the stock sight, but obviously more fragile than the stock sight. I can live with that since I don't plan to drop it, but I'll fix it if I do. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

01-22-2003, 04:59 PM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Rick... very interesting... please post a photo of your rear sight installation for the engineer in all of us... thanks... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-22-2003, 06:45 PM	#13
HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 282 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	MAny problems with adjustable sights on toggles comes up after some thousands rounds. SIghts get sloppy and with a big play and suddenly they just crack. I have had a bomar destroyed to but not as fast as some other sights. And i have installed a number of Bomars. The smartest thing would probably be to have the elevation in the front sight and the windage in the rearsight and that way both make a pretty rear sight and much more sturdy sight. Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

01-23-2003, 12:03 AM	#14
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Guys, I finally got around to examing the reat sight on my Ruger .44. It is only about an inch long and the forward part is 5/16" wide. It looks possible to recess this into a Luger toggle. What do you think? __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

01-23-2003, 12:50 AM	#15
HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 282 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	We once tried the well made sigth from Bowen. Those are made to fit direktly into a rugerrevolver and they are wery well made. But it didnt take many rounds to ruin the sight so i think its better to not try. It's also difficult to install one without an overhang. Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

01-23-2003, 01:15 AM	#16
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	HÃ?Â¥kan, If you can tell us, what are the dynamics involved in these failures? --Dwight

01-24-2003, 06:07 PM	#17
HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 282 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	On a 1911 slide the sights just goes back and forward again, in a .44 magnum revolver there is almost no tough forces as all as everything happends so slowly. But a luger pistol is problably the 9mm pistol that have the fastest cycle time of all semiautos because the parts are so low weight and the recoilspring is so heavy. When installing a adj. sight on the toggle it tipps back and forward extremely fast and this movement is extremely difficult for a sigth. Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

01-25-2003, 12:18 AM	#18
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hakan, You may well be right. Still, it should be possible to design a sight that would work. I am a mechanical engineer and I can imagine what some of your results were. Can you post any details or pictures? Nevertheless, it should be possible to make a GOOD copy of a Ruger sight from titanium or Inconel that would hold up (of course I probably wouldn't want to pay for it). If they just broke, the metal is probably some junk casting. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

01-25-2003, 03:31 PM	#19
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I forgot to add something about the attaching method. I suspect the attaching screw may be a problem, if not that, then any threaded hole in the toggle might strip. Also, pins used in elevation systems could be weak points. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

01-25-2003, 03:42 PM	#20
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	It is shame that a front adjustable sight wouldnt work, all Luger barrels have dove tails and most sights work with those. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."