Navy Commercial Help

MAUSER88 · 09-07-2015, 06:26 PM

How can I tell if this is a 1906, 1908 or 1920 Navy Commercial? Serial number is 7682. Crown N under barrel. GERMANY stamped on left side below another a Crown N proof. DWM 1915 dated. Correct concentric circled wood bottom mag. that is unmarked.

Looks like three Crown proofs with an S maybe under each one and one Eagle with wings up.

Is the shoulder board legit too? What do the stampings mean?

Any ID would be most helpful!! Please check out the pics.

Any idea of the value would help too. It's all matching and the bore is exc+++

MAUSER88 · 09-07-2015, 06:27 PM

More pics

MAUSER88 · 09-07-2015, 06:28 PM

Few more

drbuster · 09-07-2015, 07:56 PM

Observations: (1) apparently a short framed Navy which would make it a 1914 type originally, (2) no serial number under the barrel...replacement? (3) interesting C/S proofs on the right side of the frame seen on 1914 and early 1915 LP.08's, (4)lazy C/N proofs possibly indicating pre Weimar assembly. Questions: (1) is there a witness mark on the barrel at its attachment to the receiver? (2) any serial numbers on the stock iron?(3) any unit marks on the front or rear grip strap? (4) small or large rear toggle pin? (5) do you have a good view of the front/back of the holster? (6) frame well marking? Do you see an "N" or circled "N"? Need to know answers to these questions to better judge originality and value. It may have started out as a 1915 Navy, commercialized after WW1. Is it 9mm or 30 caliber?

MAUSER88 · 09-07-2015, 08:34 PM

Questions: (1) is there a witness mark on the barrel at its attachment to the receiver?

Nothing that I can see. I'll add a pic.

(2) any serial numbers on the stock iron?

No, none that I see.

(3) any unit marks on the front or rear grip strap?

No, none at all.

(3) small or large rear toggle pin?

Can't say as I have no field stripped it as yet.

(4) do you have a good view of the front/back of the holster?

Yes, what should I look for?

(5) frame well marking? Do you see an "N" or circled "N"?

Where should I look? There is a Crown N on the right side of the frame.

Need to know answers to these questions to better judge originality and value. It may have started out as a 1915 Navy, commercialized after WW1. Is it 9mm or 30 caliber?

9MM form sure.

lugerholsterrepair · 09-07-2015, 08:45 PM

Stock and stock leather is fake. do you have a good view of the front/back of the holster? I can't see enough of it to say...
How long is the barrel?
Pics of the markings if any on the bottom of the magazine?
The proofs on the right receiver throw it out of Navy or commercial and no notch..it isn't or never was an Artillery..Yes, it's got commercial marked parts but Military too..I suspect a Pacific Arms import from the 20's.
Need to know answers to these questions to better judge originality and value. Originality is out the window. It's a mongrel. Made up of various parts.
Do you have any good photo's of the Navy sight?
I would like to see the holster. It MAY be more valuable than the pistol..I say MAY be..but I can tell you if you show it to me.

drbuster · 09-07-2015, 08:56 PM

Tom, you obviously know how to post photos. Take apart this luger a take many photos of the inside of the frame, rear part of the receiver and also the inside of the grips. Better too many photos than not enough.

MAUSER88 · 09-07-2015, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Stock and stock leather is fake. do you have a good view of the front/back of the holster? I can't see enough of it to say...
How long is the barrel?
Pics of the markings if any on the bottom of the magazine?
The proofs on the right receiver throw it out of Navy or commercial and no notch..it isn't or never was an Artillery..Yes, it's got commercial marked parts but Military too..I suspect a Pacific Arms import from the 20's.
Need to know answers to these questions to better judge originality and value. Originality is out the window. It's a mongrel. Made up of various parts.
Do you have any good photo's of the Navy sight?
I would like to see the holster. It MAY be more valuable than the pistol..I say MAY be..but I can tell you if you show it to me.

Thanks. I'll get that photo'ed tomorrow.

MAUSER88 · 09-07-2015, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drbuster

Tom, you obviously know how to post photos. Take apart this luger a take many photos of the inside of the frame, rear part of the receiver and also the inside of the grips. Better too many photos than not enough.

OK, Does this help?

MAUSER88 · 09-07-2015, 09:36 PM

Few more. Barrel is 6". There is an N stamped inside above the trigger. Also the "ejector" is fired blued with the guns serial number 82

No stamps on the grips that I can see.

MAUSER88 · 09-07-2015, 09:43 PM

Rear sight.

MAUSER88 · 09-07-2015, 09:44 PM

Two more

drbuster · 09-07-2015, 09:44 PM

Tom, how about holster photos? The military proofs on the right side of the receiver tells us that this luger did not start out as a Navy. We need better photos of the rear Navy sight and the rear toggle pin which should be visible with the breech open and a picture taken of the left side of the luger. One cannot be certain yet what this luger is. It could be a totally made up fantasy piece but the requested pics certainly would help.

drbuster · 09-07-2015, 09:49 PM

The new photos show the rear toggle pin is not original Navy. Taken together, this is a made up gun of various components to look like a Navy commercial. In any event, it should be a good shooter, especially if it is in 9mm. Value under $1K.

lugerholsterrepair · 09-07-2015, 09:56 PM

Tom, In post #9 second pic..there is an alarming photo! There appears to be terrible metal spalling..to the right of where the safety comes up through the rail and to the left of the L on the holdopen. Am I seeing what I think this is?

Ron Wood · 09-07-2015, 10:23 PM

I am afraid I will have to be the bad guy here. In my opinion the gun is a 1915 army military with a replacement 6" barrel and a reproduction navy rear sight. It was placed into commercial sales after WWI but no later than 1920 as evidenced by the horizontal Crown/N proofs. The un-numbered replacement barrel and force matched navy toggle were installed at some unknown point.
Jerry, I see some roughness but no "terrible spall".

lugerholsterrepair · 09-07-2015, 10:35 PM

Ron, I see some roughness . Are you looking at the same pic I am? #9 the second pic? That's some roughness? I have a bottle of rubber cement I have had on my leather bench for 20 years..it's hide looks smooth by comparison! That is some SERIOUS metal coming unglued! Those metal globs are the size of poppy seeds. I know I'm just a dumb country boy but I gotta say, I will have to agree to disagree on.. I see some roughness. I have cracked open my share of Luger's and I ain't NEVER seen any roughness even 1/10 as bad as that! DANGER Will Robinson, DANGER! Sumpin ain't right right there.

ithacaartist · 09-08-2015, 01:10 AM

I see it, too. A sharper pic might help... it appears to me as if it could be beads of a liquid. Water in the oily corner? The mystery deepens. If a tiny chunk of harder steel got in there...

MAUSER88 · 09-08-2015, 05:49 AM

Is this what you are referring too?

MAUSER88 · 09-08-2015, 05:53 AM

More of the rear sight.

09-07-2015, 06:26 PM	#1
MAUSER88 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 255 Thanks: 3 Thanked 57 Times in 30 Posts	Navy Commercial Help How can I tell if this is a 1906, 1908 or 1920 Navy Commercial? Serial number is 7682. Crown N under barrel. GERMANY stamped on left side below another a Crown N proof. DWM 1915 dated. Correct concentric circled wood bottom mag. that is unmarked. Looks like three Crown proofs with an S maybe under each one and one Eagle with wings up. Is the shoulder board legit too? What do the stampings mean? Any ID would be most helpful!! Please check out the pics. Any idea of the value would help too. It's all matching and the bore is exc+++ Attached Thumbnails

09-07-2015, 06:27 PM	#2
MAUSER88 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 255 Thanks: 3 Thanked 57 Times in 30 Posts	More pics Attached Thumbnails

09-07-2015, 06:28 PM	#3
MAUSER88 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 255 Thanks: 3 Thanked 57 Times in 30 Posts	Few more Attached Thumbnails

09-07-2015, 08:34 PM	#5
MAUSER88 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 255 Thanks: 3 Thanked 57 Times in 30 Posts	Questions: (1) is there a witness mark on the barrel at its attachment to the receiver? Nothing that I can see. I'll add a pic. (2) any serial numbers on the stock iron? No, none that I see. (3) any unit marks on the front or rear grip strap? No, none at all. (3) small or large rear toggle pin? Can't say as I have no field stripped it as yet. (4) do you have a good view of the front/back of the holster? Yes, what should I look for? (5) frame well marking? Do you see an "N" or circled "N"? Where should I look? There is a Crown N on the right side of the frame. Need to know answers to these questions to better judge originality and value. It may have started out as a 1915 Navy, commercialized after WW1. Is it 9mm or 30 caliber? 9MM form sure. Attached Thumbnails

09-07-2015, 08:45 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Stock and stock leather is fake. do you have a good view of the front/back of the holster? I can't see enough of it to say... How long is the barrel? Pics of the markings if any on the bottom of the magazine? The proofs on the right receiver throw it out of Navy or commercial and no notch..it isn't or never was an Artillery..Yes, it's got commercial marked parts but Military too..I suspect a Pacific Arms import from the 20's. Need to know answers to these questions to better judge originality and value. Originality is out the window. It's a mongrel. Made up of various parts. Do you have any good photo's of the Navy sight? I would like to see the holster. It MAY be more valuable than the pistol..I say MAY be..but I can tell you if you show it to me. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-07-2015, 07:56 PM	#4
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Observations: (1) apparently a short framed Navy which would make it a 1914 type originally, (2) no serial number under the barrel...replacement? (3) interesting C/S proofs on the right side of the frame seen on 1914 and early 1915 LP.08's, (4)lazy C/N proofs possibly indicating pre Weimar assembly. Questions: (1) is there a witness mark on the barrel at its attachment to the receiver? (2) any serial numbers on the stock iron?(3) any unit marks on the front or rear grip strap? (4) small or large rear toggle pin? (5) do you have a good view of the front/back of the holster? (6) frame well marking? Do you see an "N" or circled "N"? Need to know answers to these questions to better judge originality and value. It may have started out as a 1915 Navy, commercialized after WW1. Is it 9mm or 30 caliber?

09-07-2015, 08:56 PM	#7
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Tom, you obviously know how to post photos. Take apart this luger a take many photos of the inside of the frame, rear part of the receiver and also the inside of the grips. Better too many photos than not enough.

09-07-2015, 09:36 PM	#10
MAUSER88 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 255 Thanks: 3 Thanked 57 Times in 30 Posts	Few more. Barrel is 6". There is an N stamped inside above the trigger. Also the "ejector" is fired blued with the guns serial number 82 No stamps on the grips that I can see. Attached Thumbnails

09-07-2015, 09:43 PM	#11
MAUSER88 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 255 Thanks: 3 Thanked 57 Times in 30 Posts	Rear sight. Attached Thumbnails

09-07-2015, 09:44 PM	#12
MAUSER88 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 255 Thanks: 3 Thanked 57 Times in 30 Posts	Two more Attached Thumbnails

09-07-2015, 09:49 PM	#14
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	The new photos show the rear toggle pin is not original Navy. Taken together, this is a made up gun of various components to look like a Navy commercial. In any event, it should be a good shooter, especially if it is in 9mm. Value under $1K.

09-07-2015, 09:56 PM	#15
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Tom, In post #9 second pic..there is an alarming photo! There appears to be terrible metal spalling..to the right of where the safety comes up through the rail and to the left of the L on the holdopen. Am I seeing what I think this is? __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-07-2015, 10:23 PM	#16
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,986 Thanks: 1,065 Thanked 5,088 Times in 1,674 Posts	I am afraid I will have to be the bad guy here. In my opinion the gun is a 1915 army military with a replacement 6" barrel and a reproduction navy rear sight. It was placed into commercial sales after WWI but no later than 1920 as evidenced by the horizontal Crown/N proofs. The un-numbered replacement barrel and force matched navy toggle were installed at some unknown point. Jerry, I see some roughness but no "terrible spall". __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

09-07-2015, 10:35 PM	#17
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,760 Thanks: 4,848 Thanked 3,099 Times in 1,426 Posts	Ron, I see some roughness . Are you looking at the same pic I am? #9 the second pic? That's some roughness? I have a bottle of rubber cement I have had on my leather bench for 20 years..it's hide looks smooth by comparison! That is some SERIOUS metal coming unglued! Those metal globs are the size of poppy seeds. I know I'm just a dumb country boy but I gotta say, I will have to agree to disagree on.. I see some roughness. I have cracked open my share of Luger's and I ain't NEVER seen any roughness even 1/10 as bad as that! DANGER Will Robinson, DANGER! Sumpin ain't right right there. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-08-2015, 01:10 AM	#18
ithacaartist Twice a Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atop the highest hill in Schuyler County NY Posts: 3,282 Thanks: 7,007 Thanked 2,476 Times in 1,319 Posts	I see it, too. A sharper pic might help... it appears to me as if it could be beads of a liquid. Water in the oily corner? The mystery deepens. If a tiny chunk of harder steel got in there... __________________ "... Liberty is the seed and soil, the air and light, the dew and rain of progress, love and joy."-- Robert Greene Ingersoll 1894

09-08-2015, 05:49 AM	#19
MAUSER88 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 255 Thanks: 3 Thanked 57 Times in 30 Posts	Is this what you are referring too? Attached Thumbnails

09-08-2015, 05:53 AM	#20
MAUSER88 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: NJ Posts: 255 Thanks: 3 Thanked 57 Times in 30 Posts	More of the rear sight. Attached Thumbnails