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Unread 08-19-2021, 07:01 AM   #1
spacecoast
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Default Interesting Swiss grip safety 9mm "commercial"

I don't see many of these advertised, would appreciate any discussion/validation of the post-WWI production statement.

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/908687455
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Unread 08-19-2021, 11:55 AM   #2
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Switzerland had standardized on the .30 Luger round, and was producing their own pistols from DWM supplied parts and under license by the end of WW-I.

Some were made in 9mm and from surplus WW-I parts. From Bobba:

"A certain number of these pistols in cal. 9mm Parabellum are also known. Some of these actually were not born this calibre, but were later modified in the USA; strictly according to the terms, these should not even be considered as a modifications derived from a "Swiss" variation, but simply a "hors-ligne" assembling."

Many had Aberchrombie and Fitch of New York markings. Serial numbers were in the 2000 to 3500 range. with "i" suffix letter like other Alphabet DWM Commercials.

Apparently Ralph Shattuck dabbled in barrel replacements of some of these, with "Made in Switzerland" rolled on the barrels.

Best guess is that this was a .30 Luger DWM commercial that arrived in Switzerland with a 100mm barrel, and that the barrel was switched out to 9mm after arriving in the USA at some point. It's speculation, but follows along Bobba's research.
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Unread 08-19-2021, 12:38 PM   #3
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I think Marc pretty well summed it up.
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Unread 08-19-2021, 12:53 PM   #4
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The "lazy" crown/N commercial proof indicates pre-WW1 production. It is known that DWM put the "cross-in-sunburst" over the receiver of guns made for commercial sales in Switzerland and some were sold in 9mm. The receiver and barrel both carry the small Swiss cross proof mark. The barrel may be original but if it was replaced, it was likely done in Switzerland as the cross would indicate.

The Lugers sold by Abercrombie & Fitch were ordered from Switzerland and delivered in 1922. DWM sent 100 sets to Switzerland without barrels because Germany was forbidden to make long barrels. The Swiss used both 120mm W+F and Hammerli manufactured barrels to complete the order and the guns were then shipped to the US. More information is available in Gortz & Sturgess (red books) beginning on page 609.

The subject pistol is clearly pre-war.

Last edited by Doubs; 08-19-2021 at 01:43 PM.
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Unread 08-19-2021, 01:13 PM   #5
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This pistol is a standard New Model Parabellum. The lazy c/N proofs place its manufacture in 1912-1913. Several features cause this pistol to be suspect. Swiss preference was for long-frame pistols; this has sort frame.


The small Swiss crosses which appear on the pistol appear to be fake, they are "sharper" than the authentic stamp. SPECULATION that they have been applied to justify/proof Swiss replacement of the barrel.This barrel does not have the front sight characteristic of Swiss preference. In any case, the small Swiss cross on a replacement barrel indicates Swiss military acceptance, and is found on the left side of the barrel, not underneath.


The four-digit serial number makes no sense. It does appear that a first digit has been either disguised or removed.


The Swiss cross-in-sunburst on the frame looks odd. Nothing diagnostic can be said about it without better pictures and removal of the whitening.


The post-war production statement is an ignorant reduction of Kenyon's comments (actually p.192), which themselves are a conflation of several different circumstances. Kenyon's comments, here as in many other places, have been made obsolete.


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Unread 08-19-2021, 01:41 PM   #6
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I wonder how much the 'million dollar chip' glued back on will add to the price ??
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Unread 08-20-2021, 01:21 AM   #7
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Here's some pics of my commercial marketed for Swiss sales. Model 1906 with Swiss Cross in Sunburst, polished safety in 7.65 cal. From what I've researched it's a fairly early gun from the change in serialization.

G2
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Unread 08-20-2021, 12:02 PM   #8
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Greg,


Thanks for posting this. Your pistol is n al0phabet Commercial i suffix pistol, made in 1921. These are fairly uncommon pistols. Note particularly the long frame and the "heavy" looking, unbeveled left frame rail/ compare these to the short frame, beveled frame rail of the pistol under discussion. These are characteristic of pre-war manufacture.


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