Swiss Luger?

swissdagger · 03-10-2011, 08:11 AM

What for a Luger I have here?

sheepherder · 03-10-2011, 09:43 AM

...

...

I don't know what it is...But I want one!!!

drbuster · 03-10-2011, 10:36 AM

Just another example of the diversity of Swiss gunmanship!

swissdagger · 03-10-2011, 11:01 AM

postino ,export to the USA would a little bit a problem for this model.

swissdagger · 03-10-2011, 11:03 AM

Doc,this one is a real Swiss Army pistol ,not a "gunsmith special".

alanint · 03-10-2011, 12:33 PM

Is this some sort of hand held firing device like a sleeve gun?

I don't see any rails to add a frame.

John Sabato · 03-10-2011, 12:33 PM

Stefan

I believe what you have there is part of a prototype carbine or submachine gun that was developed at the Swiss arsenal at Bern using the Luger Toggle design.

I have previously seen photographs of this complete weapon years ago, but can't remember where. Perhaps in Bobba's book on the history of the Swiss Parabellum.

I don't believe that this gun ever reached bonafide production levels , and that it remained a prototype. A very interesting piece to say the least.

If it is, or may be, part of a submachine gun, how would that affect the legality of its possession in Switzerland?

swissdagger · 03-10-2011, 01:33 PM

Hi John,
Right,it`s a smg ,the so called LMG Pistole 41/44.
Less than 10`000 (9`100) were made ,according the WF and Army files.
The first 5400 with Bakelit stocks (replaced with wood stocks if damaged ),the rest with wood stocks.
Only 400 survived,all other were destroyed 1971 and 1975.
My english is not good enough to tell the whole Story but I found a fine website about the LMG Pist.41/44:

http://georgians.weapon.ge/index.php...n=29&cat=&l=en

sheepherder · 03-10-2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swissdagger

Right,it`s a smg ,the so called LMG Pistole 41/44.

...

...That's what the toggle mechanism you first posted goes in???

swissdagger · 03-10-2011, 02:05 PM

Yep.

John Sabato · 03-10-2011, 02:45 PM

Stephan,

You posted photos of the later model instead of the prototype on the same website. I believe the prototype is the weapon that your part came from:

swissdagger · 03-10-2011, 03:01 PM

John,
That`s also not a prototype,that`s the MP 19.
92 guns delivered to the Swiss Army from 1919-1921 ,made by the WF Bern.
62 guns of them destroyed 1962.

What I have is the LMG Pist.41/44 or MP41/44 developed by Rudolf Furrer like the MP19 and LMG 25.

swissdagger · 03-10-2011, 03:25 PM

John,
I dont know what you have for books,I have the real thing just here in my hands.

John Sabato · 03-11-2011, 07:10 AM

Excellent photographs Stephan. Thanks for sharing this very interesting piece of toggle action history.

Vlim · 03-11-2011, 08:34 AM

Hmm, now it would be nice to build a pistol around that action. Should look stunning

swissdagger · 03-11-2011, 10:43 AM

John,
Thank you.
Looks like this one is just sold....however,before I send it out I have to make larger "functional testing",be sure that`s a fun.

03-10-2011, 08:11 AM	#1
swissdagger User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 53 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts	Swiss Luger? What for a Luger I have here?

03-10-2011, 09:43 AM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,181 Thanks: 1,397 Thanked 4,438 Times in 2,327 Posts	... ... I don't know what it is...But I want one!!! __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

03-10-2011, 12:33 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Stefan I believe what you have there is part of a prototype carbine or submachine gun that was developed at the Swiss arsenal at Bern using the Luger Toggle design. I have previously seen photographs of this complete weapon years ago, but can't remember where. Perhaps in Bobba's book on the history of the Swiss Parabellum. I don't believe that this gun ever reached bonafide production levels , and that it remained a prototype. A very interesting piece to say the least. If it is, or may be, part of a submachine gun, how would that affect the legality of its possession in Switzerland? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-10-2011, 02:45 PM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Stephan, You posted photos of the later model instead of the prototype on the same website. I believe the prototype is the weapon that your part came from: Attached Thumbnails __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-10-2011, 03:01 PM	#12
swissdagger User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 53 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts	John, That`s also not a prototype,that`s the MP 19. 92 guns delivered to the Swiss Army from 1919-1921 ,made by the WF Bern. 62 guns of them destroyed 1962. What I have is the LMG Pist.41/44 or MP41/44 developed by Rudolf Furrer like the MP19 and LMG 25. Last edited by swissdagger; 03-10-2011 at 04:36 PM.

03-10-2011, 10:36 AM	#3
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Just another example of the diversity of Swiss gunmanship!

03-10-2011, 11:01 AM	#4
swissdagger User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 53 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts	postino ,export to the USA would a little bit a problem for this model.

03-10-2011, 11:03 AM	#5
swissdagger User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 53 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts	Doc,this one is a real Swiss Army pistol ,not a "gunsmith special".

03-10-2011, 12:33 PM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	Is this some sort of hand held firing device like a sleeve gun? I don't see any rails to add a frame.

03-10-2011, 01:33 PM	#8
swissdagger User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 53 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts	Hi John, Right,it`s a smg ,the so called LMG Pistole 41/44. Less than 10`000 (9`100) were made ,according the WF and Army files. The first 5400 with Bakelit stocks (replaced with wood stocks if damaged ),the rest with wood stocks. Only 400 survived,all other were destroyed 1971 and 1975. My english is not good enough to tell the whole Story but I found a fine website about the LMG Pist.41/44: http://georgians.weapon.ge/index.php...n=29&cat=&l=en

03-10-2011, 02:05 PM	#10
swissdagger User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 53 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts	Yep.

03-10-2011, 03:25 PM	#13
swissdagger User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 53 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts	John, I dont know what you have for books,I have the real thing just here in my hands. Last edited by swissdagger; 03-10-2011 at 04:37 PM.

03-11-2011, 07:10 AM	#14
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Excellent photographs Stephan. Thanks for sharing this very interesting piece of toggle action history. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-11-2011, 08:34 AM	#15
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,031 Thanks: 1,018 Thanked 3,866 Times in 1,184 Posts	Hmm, now it would be nice to build a pistol around that action. Should look stunning

03-11-2011, 10:43 AM	#16
swissdagger User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 53 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 4 Posts	John, Thank you. Looks like this one is just sold....however,before I send it out I have to make larger "functional testing",be sure that`s a fun.