Need Advice 1920 Swiss DWM Luger

[eagle7373]

I an looking at a 1920 Swiss DWM Luger, but wanted any advice on whether this is legit, or worth buying.

Here is a description: "1920 Swiss Commercial Luger, 3.75” barrel, and modified safety. SN: 77810. Cal: 7.65mmL. The Swiss “cross in sunburst” over chamber appears partially handcut or enhanced. Middle toggle link with intertwined DWM. Crown/N on left receiver, under barrel, and left side of breech block. Full serial number under barrel and on forward frame. Last two matching digits on all the usual numbered parts. Grip safety modified so that when the thumb safety is in the off position, the grip safety is deactivated, free to move forward without impediment. Unnumbered walnut checkered grips and magazine with blued body and wood base numbered “1200 d”. Condition: Approximately 97% original rust blue with several of the numbers having haloed edges. Slightly less condition on the strawed parts--particularly the trigger, whose right side and front surface have greyed. Sharply checkered grips with staining but negligible imperfections. Bright bore with strong rifling. Perfect manual mechanics. An interesting Swiss both by virtue of the chamber marking and modified grip safety."

I have enclosed some photos. Asking price is $2200. Any advice?

[Norme]

I would avoid it because of the "hand-cut chamber crest". Why buy a faked gun?
Norm

[eagle7373]

Norm,

Thank you very much for verifying my suspicions. I have spend the last hour or so reviewing photos of the Swiss sunburst (and this one is not right), and looking at Davis's Luger catalog. I notice that the 1920 DWM Commercial and the 1920 Swiss are almost identical except for the sunburst. I guess someone may have taken a 1920 commercial and "enhanced" it, presumably because it would be worth more. Thanks again.

[Norme]

Hi Glenn,
This is actually a textbook example of a fake "Cross in Sunburst". The sunburst is asymmetrical and the opposing arms of the cross don't line up with each other. The seller implies that the crest was merely touched up, which is certainly not the case.
Regards. Norm

[Dwight Gruber]

First off, please do not rely on Aarron Davis's book. It is full of misinformation, among which is the aforementioned "1920 Swiss". There is no such beast; there are Swiss-market pistols reported between 1920-1930, but Davis's lumping these together under this misleading category does no favors for a discerning collector. (In obsolescent collector terms this pistol would be considered a "1923 commercial", but that is a topic for another soap box.)

It would be interesting to examine this pistol. The Swiss cross is obviously fake, as you have noted. The sear bar is wrong for a grip safety, the relief is cut the wrong direction. There is no return spring for the grip safety, it would be interesting to see how the grip safety itself is adapted. Whoever made this up knew enough to include a Swiss-type front sight.

There are no Swiss-market pistols, or indeed any grip-safety commercial pistols, reported anywhere near this gun's serial number range.

Could you please post a link to this gun's whereabouts?

--Dwight

[eagle7373]

Dwight, thanks very much for your knowledge and perspective. To answer your question, this gun is listed on GunBroker now. I think the shop is in Davenport, IA. To post my question I simply snitched a few images off the auction site and copied (with a little editing) the auction write-up. I think you can easily find it if you search for Swiss Lugers.

[Norme]

Here's the link:
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/697453986
The seller is a well known and highly respected author, collector and dealer. How sad.
Norm

[eagle7373]

Dwight, I went back to GunBroker. I may not have done this correctly, but here's a link.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/697453986
Thanks again for your perspective.

[flydive]

I also believe that Swiss do not have the stock attachment.
Am I correct?

[Dwight Gruber]

For pistols which are originally French-market commercials, I am pretty sure you are correct.

--Dwight

[Stucki]

I know from another similar pistol: Originally a Mauser (byf) from 1941. The gun received a 120mm barrel caliber 7,65mm, a grip safety and the "cross in sunburst". I know the gunmaker/-dealer who has done this work (including the "cross in sunburst") around 1960. According to him the grip safety was installed by the Waffenfabrik Bern.

Fake ist the wrong word for this kind of pistols. Swiss gunmakers/-dealers produced these Lugers for Swiss shooters, who wanted a nice shooter similar to the pistol of the Swiss armed forces. The dealers and their customers knew that these guns were not original Swiss Lugers.

Even if it is not original, it is an interesting and collectible gun - but the price is much to high. These kind of guns must be substantial cheaper than Lugers in original condition - at least that's my point of view.

Alexander