German friend has luger in Germany

[Sky Zero]

Hey guys, I have a question that may be unanswerable. A friend of mine IN Germany has his grandfather's p08 from the war. After Germany surrendered, they just kept it and the current German government doesn't know they have. Germans being Germans, they can't really do anything with it.

My question is this: is there a legal way to get it out of Germany and into the u.s.? I mean it's a ww2 luger from the person who it was issued to! Thanks

[DonVoigt]

Quick answer - No.
If it is not "legal" in Germany, they could not complete the required paper work for a legal, documented export to the US.

[Sky Zero]

That's a shame, man

[Vlim]

Actually it is 'yes'. They must legalize the pistol in Germany. Then any German dealer can export it to the US.

[Sky Zero]

Originally Posted by Vlim

Actually it is 'yes'. They must legalize the pistol in Germany. Then any German dealer can export it to the US.

Well that's good news! Hopefully the government doesn't confiscate it once he tells them he has it...

[mrerick]

It will pay to read up on the current law before approaching authorities. I believe that there is a time limit (after discovery of the pistol) and fairly comprehensive registration procedures.

It may also pay to contact a local collector or dealer to get a handle on the process.

[Sky Zero]

Originally Posted by mrerick

It will pay to read up on the current law before approaching authorities. I believe that there is a time limit (after discovery of the pistol) and fairly comprehensive registration procedures.

It may also pay to contact a local collector or dealer to get a handle on the process.

For sure. His biggest fear (and mine) is thay they tell someone about it and it gets confiscated :/ well, thabks guys. We will try to go from here! This could be a process but totally worth it..

[mahd776]

You might talk to someone at Simpson's Limited in Galesburg, IL. Bob Simpson purchases and imports firearms from Europe quite often.

[RShaw]

Hi James,
I had a similar problem when we moved from Germany to the Netherlands, but it was resolved very well. From that experience I can tell you that first becoming familiar with the regulations (as already suggested), and then being forthright and transparent when approaching the proper authorities, will afford your friend the best chance to export the gun and avoid significant legal problems.

Your friend will need to show papers which demonstrate that that particular P08 was issued to his grandfather, and then show his relationship to the gun's owner as his grandson. Otherwise the gun may likely be confiscated since there would be no documented connection of the gun to him or his family at all.

These papers would certainly add value to the gun as a collectible, especially if the grandfather's actions and whereabouts during his service days can be documented. (Would surprise me if that doecumentation has been lost)

Your friend should be able to go to the military office where the grandfather was stationed, and dig up those papers when he can show that he is the grandson. We live very close to Germany, and I worked in Germany for many years. If you want, I can find out more from here. Let me know?

As you say, it will likely be a process, but well worth it. Sounds like a fascinating project!

[Edward Tinker]

Please send a personal message to Vlim, the mod who answered you above. He lives next to Germany in the Netherlands and has helped a few people get it legalized. He also speaks fluent German.

Ed

[DonVoigt]

Of course if the pistol becomes "legal" in Germany, the OP's question is different;
Until that happens, the answer is still No.

[Sky Zero]

Originally Posted by RShaw

Hi James,
I had a similar problem when we moved from Germany to the Netherlands, but it was resolved very well. From that experience I can tell you that first becoming familiar with the regulations (as already suggested), and then being forthright and transparent when approaching the proper authorities, will afford your friend the best chance to export the gun and avoid significant legal problems.

Your friend will need to show papers which demonstrate that that particular P08 was issued to his grandfather, and then show his relationship to the gun's owner as his grandson. Otherwise the gun may likely be confiscated since there would be no documented connection of the gun to him or his family at all.

These papers would certainly add value to the gun as a collectible, especially if the grandfather's actions and whereabouts during his service days can be documented. (Would surprise me if that doecumentation has been lost)

Your friend should be able to go to the military office where the grandfather was stationed, and dig up those papers when he can show that he is the grandson. We live very close to Germany, and I worked in Germany for many years. If you want, I can find out more from here. Let me know?

As you say, it will likely be a process, but well worth it. Sounds like a fascinating project!

Awesome! Well definitely going to get him started on this project and I'll definitely consult with you if anything comes up! I'm super excited and I'm hoping nothing arises from not having told the german government for so long. Thanks so much guys!! I cna always count on the people here :]

[RShaw]

Hi James,
Another thought: Is your friend a firearms enthusiast or collector? If not, he could get the necessary permits to shoot and / or collect, and once he is properly licensed, he could see about registering the gun as an inheritance from the grandfather. Of course the above mentioned papers are needed anyway.... maybe he'll end up as a future Luger expert- who knows? He does need to be up front with the government in any case.... in the meantime he could perhaps entrust it or store it with a licensed gunshop or police until proper registration could be organized.
Just another idea.... may take a while, but maybe your friend will discover a new interest he didn't know he had

[Thosbi]

I live in Germany and I would say.
Nearly impossible to legalize the pistol.
If your friend in German a collector or hunter, he has a very small Chance.
Is a question of the state.
Regular the government confiscate and destroyed this kind of guns.
Have unfortunately seen many good weapons which were then destroyed.
A big shame.

[RShaw]

Hi Thosbi,
So now what???? There is no way to legalize or sell at all? What do you advise then? Continuing to keep would be "unwise" but to allow it to be destroyed is, in way, worse. Perhaps leave in the hands of a collector or of a museum? Such a shame.....

[DavidJayUden]

We are in a similar situation in the US in regards to the military armaments that were given to war bond holders in the first World War. One of the rewards for raising money to support the war effort was a deactivated Maxim gun and a great many were distributed by the US government amongst the civilian population after the war ended. Later came licensing requirements, then came a mandate making all unregistered forever illegal. There are now non-functional Maxim guns, now family heirlooms, around the country which are forever illegal and can only be sold as parts kits (minus the receiver side plate).
A monument to bureaucratic inefficiency and stupidity, IMHO.
dju

[RShaw]

I never knew that! Why make a gun, especially a deactivated gun, illegal???
I must be missing something.

[John Sabato]

Originally Posted by RShaw

I never knew that! Why make a gun, especially a deactivated gun, illegal???
I must be missing something.

Deactivation takes many forms... in many cases the early deactivation (prior to the requirement for registration and licensing and payment of taxes) of these war trophies was insufficient to prevent re-activation.

Any "device" that can be easily made into a machinegun, (for example, by simple replacement of parts), is considered to be already a machinegun by our federal enforcement authority, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) and is subject to the law restrictions that exist today, regardless of their history of ownership or possession.

[RShaw]

Ahh.
Thank you

[DonVoigt]

There was a time that simply removing the barrel or bolt of a machine gun rendered it "de-activated".

During the 1968 Amnesty Registration a simple statement of "deactivated by removing bolt(or barrel), barrel(or bolt) , not in my possession". was sufficient to effect registration of a "dewat" machinegun. (Don't argue with me, I saw the paper work at the time and still have copies in my possession.)