Origin of the short frame

drbuster · 03-05-2005, 04:39 PM

Model 1900 DWM lugers all have the long frame. 1902 was the first model with the short frame, presumably because of the vagaries of the new 9mm cartridge. 1906 models started out (7.65mm) with the long frame and somewhere through about 20-30% of production, the short frame surfaced. Does anyone have any clues, ideas, theories as to why this happened? I posed this question to Michael Krause today. His response was that there are "several theories" as to why. He would like very much to hear feedback from you folks out there.

Vlim · 03-06-2005, 08:37 AM

Hi,

Most probable reason is reduction of weight. Many armies who tested the 1900 Lugers complained about the weight of the pistol and Georg Luger was forced to shave off as many excess weight of the design as possible.

drbuster · 03-06-2005, 09:55 AM

Sounds very logical. I wonder if any other machining modifications were made to reduce the weight of the pistol.

Ponyman · 03-06-2005, 03:39 PM

Is the narrow trigger guard the result of the same weight-cutting program?

drbuster · 03-06-2005, 06:46 PM

Ponyman, I doubt it. If you have held or fired the model 1900 or 1902, the wide trigger guard is kind of an impediment to a good trigger feel. As a matter of fact, the Swiss tried to overcome this by producing their "wide trigger" 1900 version. This frame shortening to lighten the weight, to me, just seems too little weight reduction. It may well be true, but I bet there was a better reason...perhaps it was easier to manufacture.

Dwight Gruber · 03-06-2005, 09:41 PM

Ponyman,

Any miniscule weight reduction from the narrowed trigger guard is more than likely made up for--exceeded by--the wider trigger introduced at the same time.

--Dwight

Vlim · 03-07-2005, 01:07 PM

It were especially the Swiss who nagged about weight reduction. Luger was asked to reduce the weight of the original Borchardt-Luger from about 35oz to 33.5 oz.

So we are talking about very, very minor reductions in weight.

drbuster · 03-07-2005, 08:46 PM

Gerben, shortening the frame would certainly put the weight in that limit.

03-05-2005, 04:39 PM	#1
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Origin of the short frame Model 1900 DWM lugers all have the long frame. 1902 was the first model with the short frame, presumably because of the vagaries of the new 9mm cartridge. 1906 models started out (7.65mm) with the long frame and somewhere through about 20-30% of production, the short frame surfaced. Does anyone have any clues, ideas, theories as to why this happened? I posed this question to Michael Krause today. His response was that there are "several theories" as to why. He would like very much to hear feedback from you folks out there.

03-06-2005, 03:39 PM	#4
Ponyman User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Atlantic County, NJ, USA Posts: 138 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Is the narrow trigger guard the result of the same weight-cutting program? __________________ "The Constitution is intended for use by a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the governance of any other." ~ John Quincy Adams

03-06-2005, 08:37 AM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	Hi, Most probable reason is reduction of weight. Many armies who tested the 1900 Lugers complained about the weight of the pistol and Georg Luger was forced to shave off as many excess weight of the design as possible.

03-06-2005, 09:55 AM	#3
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Sounds very logical. I wonder if any other machining modifications were made to reduce the weight of the pistol.

03-06-2005, 06:46 PM	#5
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Ponyman, I doubt it. If you have held or fired the model 1900 or 1902, the wide trigger guard is kind of an impediment to a good trigger feel. As a matter of fact, the Swiss tried to overcome this by producing their "wide trigger" 1900 version. This frame shortening to lighten the weight, to me, just seems too little weight reduction. It may well be true, but I bet there was a better reason...perhaps it was easier to manufacture.

03-06-2005, 09:41 PM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	Ponyman, Any miniscule weight reduction from the narrowed trigger guard is more than likely made up for--exceeded by--the wider trigger introduced at the same time. --Dwight

03-07-2005, 01:07 PM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,034 Thanks: 1,020 Thanked 3,882 Times in 1,186 Posts	It were especially the Swiss who nagged about weight reduction. Luger was asked to reduce the weight of the original Borchardt-Luger from about 35oz to 33.5 oz. So we are talking about very, very minor reductions in weight.

03-07-2005, 08:46 PM	#8
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Gerben, shortening the frame would certainly put the weight in that limit.