Markings on a DWM

MD650 · 09-14-2014, 05:08 PM

I´ve tried to identfy this marking on a DWM-P 08.
There is a DWM without any year markings.
Is there any one who has an idea what it might be?

JTD · 09-14-2014, 05:25 PM

A proof house marking I am pretty sure. I do not know who off hand. John

DavidJayUden · 09-14-2014, 05:38 PM

Does it appear that the date has been ground off? Any other proofs or acceptance markings? Stock lug? Serial number?

LU1900 · 09-14-2014, 07:06 PM

Belgian issue

MD650 · 09-15-2014, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Does it appear that the date has been ground off? Any other proofs or acceptance markings? Stock lug? Serial number?

No, there is no trace of any date on the gun.
And there is only that marking.
There is same serial number on all parts on the gun except the barell.
According to one source the barell has been changed.

John Sabato · 09-15-2014, 07:30 AM

IMHO The cursive capital "L" inside the proof mark stands for the Liege Belgium proof house. More photographs of the area above and both sides of the chamber are needed to be sure but just with the photo already provided of the top of the chamber I believe the date has been polished off before this proofmark was applied. There are minute traces of polishing or fine sanding visible below the blue in this area and the receiver corner reliefs appear "softened" instead of sharp.

Just my tuppence !

alanint · 09-15-2014, 08:20 AM

I agree with John in all respects.

MD650 · 09-15-2014, 10:03 AM

Thanks for the help so far.
I took some more pictures and hope they are in some way helping to get some more information about the back ground of this gun.

MD650 · 09-15-2014, 10:05 AM

Last picture.

DavidJayUden · 09-15-2014, 10:23 AM

The photos suggest a different degree of polish to the barrel than to the rest of the gun. Blued small parts but polished or strawed extractor, and I'm still on the fence regarding whether or not the date has been removed.
More photos, including the witness mark, will help confirm or dispel such notions.
dju

MD650 · 09-15-2014, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

More photos, including the witness mark, will help confirm or dispel such notions.
dju

As I understand the barrel is not the original one.

Where schould the witness mark be?

John Sabato · 09-15-2014, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD650

As I understand the barrel is not the original one.

Where schould the witness mark be?

Bottom of the barrel... there will be a small notch which should line up with a similar notch on the upper receiver when installed.

Here is an example from an older thread:

MD650 · 09-15-2014, 01:23 PM

Ok, I got it now.
As you can see there is no correct proof mark.
So the barrel is not the original one.

DavidJayUden · 09-15-2014, 02:34 PM

So we know it has been rebarrelled and refinished. Whether the date has been ground off remains unknown, but my guess it that it has been. The right side MAY show spots where the original acceptance marks were filled prior to re-blue (your 4th photo) and at some point in time it ended up in Belgium.
I forget, what was the question?
dju

MD650 · 09-15-2014, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

I forget, what was the question?
dju

My first question was about the marking ( the L inside a flaming grenade).

And of course I´d like to know as much as possible about the gun.

DavidJayUden · 09-15-2014, 03:18 PM

Wild guess here, but I'll speculate that it was a WW1 German military pistol that somehow ended up in Belgium, passing thru their proof testing, being rebarreled and refinished along the way. Possibly used for military but I suspect it was more likely a commercial sale or a private war trophy.
Maybe some of our Euro. members can shed more light on under what circumstances those Belgium proofs are applied.
Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
dju

MD650 · 09-15-2014, 03:38 PM

Do you have any idea in what year it might be from?
Before 193x?

DavidJayUden · 09-15-2014, 04:41 PM

With the military number system it would be early 1920's at the latest, but most likely 1914-1918.
dju

MD650 · 09-16-2014, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

With the military number system it would be early 1920's at the latest, but most likely 1914-1918.
dju

Ok, thanks for the help.

Diver6106 · 09-21-2014, 03:13 PM

I have a matching AC41 P-38 with the same 'L flaming bomb' proof mark. I suspect it was pulled into service after the war in the rebuilding of Belgium. It also has German export marking 'WAFFSCHU DE 10', then was eventually imported into the US at C.A.I. Georgia VT.

09-14-2014, 05:08 PM	#1
MD650 User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 10 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Markings on a DWM I´ve tried to identfy this marking on a DWM-P 08. There is a DWM without any year markings. Is there any one who has an idea what it might be? Attached Thumbnails

09-14-2014, 07:06 PM	#4
LU1900 User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: FRANCE Posts: 900 Thanks: 35 Thanked 461 Times in 193 Posts	Belgian issue Attached Thumbnails __________________ Best regards from France...Patrice https://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2016/03/1...nd-snail-drum/

09-15-2014, 07:30 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	IMHO The cursive capital "L" inside the proof mark stands for the Liege Belgium proof house. More photographs of the area above and both sides of the chamber are needed to be sure but just with the photo already provided of the top of the chamber I believe the date has been polished off before this proofmark was applied. There are minute traces of polishing or fine sanding visible below the blue in this area and the receiver corner reliefs appear "softened" instead of sharp. Just my tuppence ! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-15-2014, 10:03 AM	#8
MD650 User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 10 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the help so far. I took some more pictures and hope they are in some way helping to get some more information about the back ground of this gun. Attached Thumbnails

09-15-2014, 10:05 AM	#9
MD650 User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 10 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Last picture. Attached Thumbnails

09-14-2014, 05:25 PM	#2
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 424 Thanks: 214 Thanked 407 Times in 148 Posts	A proof house marking I am pretty sure. I do not know who off hand. John

09-14-2014, 05:38 PM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Does it appear that the date has been ground off? Any other proofs or acceptance markings? Stock lug? Serial number?

09-15-2014, 08:20 AM	#7
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,916 Times in 1,192 Posts	I agree with John in all respects.

09-15-2014, 10:23 AM	#10
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	The photos suggest a different degree of polish to the barrel than to the rest of the gun. Blued small parts but polished or strawed extractor, and I'm still on the fence regarding whether or not the date has been removed. More photos, including the witness mark, will help confirm or dispel such notions. dju

09-15-2014, 01:23 PM	#13
MD650 User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 10 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok, I got it now. As you can see there is no correct proof mark. So the barrel is not the original one. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by MD650; 09-15-2014 at 03:57 PM.

09-15-2014, 02:34 PM	#14
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	So we know it has been rebarrelled and refinished. Whether the date has been ground off remains unknown, but my guess it that it has been. The right side MAY show spots where the original acceptance marks were filled prior to re-blue (your 4th photo) and at some point in time it ended up in Belgium. I forget, what was the question? dju

09-15-2014, 03:18 PM	#16
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Wild guess here, but I'll speculate that it was a WW1 German military pistol that somehow ended up in Belgium, passing thru their proof testing, being rebarreled and refinished along the way. Possibly used for military but I suspect it was more likely a commercial sale or a private war trophy. Maybe some of our Euro. members can shed more light on under what circumstances those Belgium proofs are applied. Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. dju

09-15-2014, 03:38 PM	#17
MD650 User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 10 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Do you have any idea in what year it might be from? Before 193x?

09-15-2014, 04:41 PM	#18
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	With the military number system it would be early 1920's at the latest, but most likely 1914-1918. dju

09-21-2014, 03:13 PM	#20
Diver6106 User Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Mt. Vernon VA Posts: 244 Thanks: 1,417 Thanked 117 Times in 75 Posts	I have a matching AC41 P-38 with the same 'L flaming bomb' proof mark. I suspect it was pulled into service after the war in the rebuilding of Belgium. It also has German export marking 'WAFFSCHU DE 10', then was eventually imported into the US at C.A.I. Georgia VT.